Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Uka is crap (at least form a damage perspective) Mumor is the dnc you want. I suppose it depends on what you do and how well you can stop the ballads. Generally when I'm soloing I tend to play just defensively enough to stop the need for much curing to prevent ballad triggers. Plus stunning spells/tp moves often helps with that.

That said haste samba is only a tad lower than Advancing March so even if you are only getting single marches it would just be trading a little of your dps for a bunch from npc

[Hitou]

Koru-Moru exists now so there's no reason to bring double bards. Or a WHM trust even unless you really need the healing, in which case you're probably gonna want a real whm. That said, Mihli + Koru would be a good combo for healing since she's the best at that and he can keep her MP up with refresh II. Koru-moru mumor/uka and ulmia should be enough to cap haste for most jobs. A lot of jobs can probably drop the brd with dual wield/hasso etc.

[NynJa]

what he's saying is it's still more useful even despite that fact

Utility = being brought along for a job trait that some people believe doesnt do a god damn thing and stuck in the reject party without cures or buffs. In fact the only time people notice you're there is if nothing drops, just to bitch at you.

Thats like being the 16 year old with a drivers license and everyone all of a sudden wants to hang out with you...except they just want the lifts, and only remember you're there when its time to get another lift. (and no that wasnt me, I got mine at 18)

[Prothescar]

small as it is though, it's still more use.

[Kincard]

maybe people in the community make the mistake of thinking THF has some kind of utility out of something that probably makes no difference, but that doesn't really prove anything about the job itself

though really, TH is a dumb mechanic for an online game and should just either be removed entirely or given to a wide variety of jobs such that it doesn't even matter

given what we've learned in the past it still seems likely to me that TH past level 2 does jack and shit (didn't Mot test TH7 vs TH2 a long while back and walked out of Dynamis with like 10 more bills or something dumb like that?)

i've always made this argument, but if it takes like 100 extra attempts for you to get one more 1% drop from that TH7 then on an individual basis effectively its really no different than just taking a RNG or something, we're not going to play or probably even live long enough to make runs approach infinity

[Fwahm]

The difference between TH3 and TH8 is pretty huge in Incursion. It's like 50% more drops, at least.

[Ophannus]

Dunno if anyone responded to what I asked a few pages back regarding /THF.

Ionis= TH+2
/THF= TH+2
Chaac Belt= TH+1

So a COR/THF could technically proc TH5 on everything with ranged attacks without needing to bring a THF main perhaps? As an aside, isn't kind of weird that out of all jobs, RNG got Bounty Shot? I mean when I think of Bounty, I think of Pirates, and don't forget Corsairs are technically supposed to be "Gamblers", it's just that they were renamed for FFXI cuz Gambler has a bad connotation in JP(never stopped them before in old FF games though...) Anyway, always felt like 'Bounty Shot' was more of a gambler/pirate kind of ability more than a stealth archer's.

[Bukadan]

i mean, thf gets that xbow thats ilevel119 right? so acid bolts for def down, sleep bolts for sleep-stunning? has anyone tried this? i mean you can get a serious amount of racc in equip for the shots, and its pretty quick to shoot. i used to acid bolt defdown and sleep bolt stun in dynamis back in the day. of course, this would be for the normal mobs at the very least, i dont even know if it would work on the bosses? thf is one of those jobs that a players skill and knowledge really shows through on. i mean once youve rolled with a high contributing, normally absurd job like thf, or blu, you can actually get behind them even beyond their main role. (in the case of thf, th)

[dasva]

Dunno if anyone responded to what I asked a few pages back regarding /THF.

Ionis= TH+2
/THF= TH+2
Chaac Belt= TH+1
So a COR/THF could technically proc TH5

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work

[Sechs]

The difference between TH3 and TH8 is pretty huge in Incursion. It's like 50% more drops, at least.

Eyeballing yes. Difference between TH2 (occasional TH3 when I remembered to use Chaac Belt) and TH8 is pretty pretty big in Incursion.


Are we 100% sure Ionis gives TH2? Are we sure it stacks with /THF's TH2? If it's "TH2" it shouldn't stack. If it's "TH+2" it should, no?
Since I noticed a big difference in Incursion in runs I went /THF compared to runs we went with a real THF, I'm leaning to think it doesn't stack. Should be easy enough to test with a THF given that they get procs messages.

[Karbuncle]

Dunno if anyone responded to what I asked a few pages back regarding /THF.

Ionis= TH+2
/THF= TH+2
Chaac Belt= TH+1

So a COR/THF could technically proc TH5 on everything with ranged attacks without needing to bring a THF main perhaps? As an aside, isn't kind of weird that out of all jobs, RNG got Bounty Shot? I mean when I think of Bounty, I think of Pirates, and don't forget Corsairs are technically supposed to be "Gamblers", it's just that they were renamed for FFXI cuz Gambler has a bad connotation in JP(never stopped them before in old FF games though...) Anyway, always felt like 'Bounty Shot' was more of a gambler/pirate kind of ability more than a stealth archer's.

Pretty sure COR was changed to Corsair because "Gambler" was a "bad" thing in the NA/EU markets, not the JP one. Thats the reason I recall.

Now for something completely different. I pretty much feel in fights where Ranger is involved, THF is pointless cause 2-3 RNG can get their TH levels to 7-8 by the end of most of those fights if they remember to hit Bounty shot. I think Incursion is the only TH-effected event that Isn't RNG only now, so I mean, yay for being an Outside party TH whore? Yah, thats a satisfying use. No matter how well i play my job, a TH mule is just as effective, especially on I.lv129+ Content receiving no buffs.

I can't consider THF a job or class when its only function is an ill conceived placebo effect whos exact tangible benefits are still not fully and indisputably understood after 13 or so years.

[Malithar]

Dunno if anyone responded to what I asked a few pages back regarding /THF.

Ionis= TH+2
/THF= TH+2
Chaac Belt= TH+1

So a COR/THF could technically proc TH5 on everything with ranged attacks without needing to bring a THF main perhaps?

I've never tested (or seen testing) if the Mummer's upgrades are actually +TH or just some additional modifier to loot. Even if it is +TH though, the above isn't quite accurate. The caps they added for TH was 8 for Thf, and 4 for all other jobs. If Ionis is +2 TH, it'd explain why some may not see that much of a difference between a /Thf and a main Thf. Easy enough to find out though, no TH gear Thf with Ionis should proc TH6 if it works as said.

Side note, jesus fucking christ at the Thf QQ on the o forums. You'd think Thf was just dealt some major blow that made them go from being the most amazing job to being the new Bst.

[Hitou]

Aside from gaining a little acc/att and being able to spam steps faster, which will probably just hurt dps more I don't see how the dnc changes affect thf at all. Outside of even easier Dynamis procs no one is gonna use DNC for anything they don't already use it for. Which is almost nothing.

Kinda surprised there aren't a bunch of mnks whining that pup will now have the same H2H skill as them and it's unbalanced because of the puppet or whatever.

[Malithar]

Aside from gaining a little acc/att and being able to spam steps faster, which will probably just hurt dps more I don't see how the dnc changes affect thf at all.

Funny that none of them have acknowledged that as far as we know, the step changes work for Thf/Dnc too. They seem too hung up on Thf no longer being the unique "best dagger" user, which magically makes it a terrible DD, thus losing it's place in parties. lol

Kinda surprised there aren't a bunch of mnks whining that pup will now have the same H2H skill as them and it's unbalanced because of the puppet or whatever.

One did try and say that, saying that Mnk just had counter and kick attacks to make up the difference now. Was too stupid of a poster to bother with.

[Sechs]

Kinda surprised there aren't a bunch of mnks whining that pup will now have the same H2H skill as them and it's unbalanced because of the puppet or whatever.

I was surprised myself, considering this is the second time PUP's skill gets bumped up (previously it was C- or something I think).
I don't think MNK is suddenly getting dethroned because of these PUP changes. MNK still mantains some unique JAs, Traits and Job Specific gear which should make a difference at the end of the day.
Yet, I wouldn't be surprised to see PUP performing slightly ahead of MNK on a couple of fights (master+automaton of course)

I don't see how this is going to hurt MNK or making it less desirable for content where you actually want a MNK.
All it does is making PUP a less despicable and more viable alternative for those same contents.
Should we whine about this though? At least on paper it sounds like a good change for me.

[Treize Kordero]

I think it's a good change for PUPs... it won't knock MNK off it's throne anytime soon. There's just things MNKs can do that PUPs can't. Formless Strikes being one of them. All SE did was finally allow PUPs to have the same level of +DMG, attack, and accuracy.

PUP is also missing 2 levels of Martial Arts... even though the gap can only be closed a bit with Empy gear (pants and necklace) and Kenkonken. I was going to mention shoalin belt as well but MNK can use it too soo... and I believe MNK has some Martial Arts on Tantra body which will become useful again depending what stats are on it when SE decides to create an ilvl version.

[Ophannus]

Aside from gaining a little acc/att and being able to spam steps faster, which will probably just hurt dps more I don't see how the dnc changes affect thf at all. Outside of even easier Dynamis procs no one is gonna use DNC for anything they don't already use it for. Which is almost nothing.

If C.Flourish/T.Flourish gets a CHR modifier for base damage such that 1CHR:1DMG, then DNC just got its own Sneak Attack

Does thf have anything over dnc in terms of DD? Dnc has Saber Dance, higher tier DW, haste samba, flourishes, steps, stuns. Seems like other than TH, THF doesn't bring much other utility. I mean TA/collab/accomp only work if there 's like an established tank and it's in your party or if you have a WHM who just benedictioned. SA+Rudras might have competition if CF+Rudras can deal similar damage. Just leaves THF with bully/triple attack/marksmenship, slightly better equipment(AF/AF2) and Mandau i guess?

[Sechs]

PUP is also missing 2 levels of Martial Arts... even though the gap can only be closed a bit with Empy gear (pants and necklace) and Kenkonken. I was going to mention shoalin belt as well but MNK can use it too soo... and I believe MNK has some Martial Arts on Tantra body which will become useful again depending what stats are on it when SE decides to create an ilvl version.

There's martial arts on the Incursion augmented JSE PUP cape.
Altough I don't know how the numbers on the best augment cape convert into real Martial Arts values.

[Ophannus]

Yeah PUP also doesn't have Impetus which is a huge part of MNK's damage besides 2 MA traits. Automaton could potentially close the gap if they had higher accuracy though, i mean autos have like ~720-800ish acc meanwhile Adherent Velkks are conning high evasion to me in incursion with 1030 accuracy.

[Malithar]

I've never tested (or seen testing) if the Mummer's upgrades are actually +TH or just some additional modifier to loot. Even if it is +TH though, the above isn't quite accurate. The caps they added for TH was 8 for Thf, and 4 for all other jobs. If Ionis is +2 TH, it'd explain why some may not see that much of a difference between a /Thf and a main Thf. Easy enough to find out though, no TH gear Thf with Ionis should proc TH6 if it works as said.

Followup on this, Ionis is indeed TH+2. Thf/Dnc with +1 TH in gear, first proc was TH7. So /Thf in SoA doesn't need belt to cap, and Thf main in SoA can gear for only +3 TH.