Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Prothescar]

the whole roll system needs adjustment.

*maintaining/reapplying them needs to be improved. reduce the amount of time it takes to put them up (an option to skip the animation maybe) and better overwriting mechanics (reduce the cooldown on Fold to 10 seconds, only allow it to remove Bust once every 5 minutes or something)

*cor could really use a way to get a 3rd roll

the potency of the buffs isnt a valid concern anymore. songs and geo bubbles are, per-buff, stronger.

[Sechs]

COR has many "unique" stuff though. A fuckton compared to BRD, and still some compared to GEO too.
Its buffs are dynamic and based on a % (well, some at least), whereas BRD's ones are static.
Think a good, AF powered up Chaos roll gives more Att than 3x Minuets for instance?
Or Hunter's Roll which works for both ranged and melee acc, BRDs get only 2 acc songs.
Stuff like that.

I agree COR could use a CD with a third roll similar to GEO's, but potencywise I think COR is still slightly more powerful than BRD. It lakes versatility and couple of other issues you mentioned, in return it can deal decent damage.

[ccl]

brd is still the only job that can keep one of it's SP forever I doubt we'll ever stop using 5song brd.

[Ophannus]

One could argue Cor is a hybrid buffer that unlike brd and geo, cor does damage. Although a counter to that is that unlike geo and brd , cor doesnt debuff...also COR dd kinda sucks because of their accuracy in higher content unless extremely well geared.

[Fwahm]

Geo is designed to do damage too, though, so I doubt that's one of SE's reasons to keep COR limited to 2 rolls.

[ccl]

Cor also make debuff better, don't forget that (light shot for dia, earth shot for slow/elegy and so on)

[Prothescar]

COR has many "unique" stuff though. A fuckton compared to BRD, and still some compared to GEO too.

Most of them are worthless

Its buffs are dynamic and based on a % (well, some at least), whereas BRD's ones are static. Think a good, AF powered up Chaos roll gives more Att than 3x Minuets for instance?

Minuet > Chaos roll, particularly with Soul Voice

Or Hunter's Roll which works for both ranged and melee acc, BRDs get only 2 acc songs.

almost never a problem


let's also consider that COR is much more heavily influenced by dispels compared to any other support class. if a melee gets a roll dispelled, it's significantly more effort for the COR to replace that roll than for a BRD or GEO to replace a song/bubble. You have to rotate the rolls out or wait for them to wear off most of the time.

[Sechs]

Most of them are worthless

Sounds a bit of an exageration. It's mostly a situation of having only 2 slots/rolls and needing certain rolls more than others. Others are potentially really nice I think.
BRD's ones instead are *really* useless, aside those few you really use.
Like 100ish songs and you use only 10ish?

Minuet > Chaos roll, particularly with Soul Voice

Is it now?
Minuetx3 with song+4 and 5/5 merits = ~220 static attack. 440 if you consider SV but you shouldn't consider it imho, it's an SP it's not fair to do a comparison that way.
Chaos Roll with XI and AF should be like what, attack +42%? Dynamic since it's a %. If you have 1300 base attack it would give you ~540 attack? If we consider lucky roll it's ~455 attack for someone with 1300 attack, ~360 if we consider a 10.
I mean... doesn't seem like Chaos Roll is that bad to me.
Actually I forgot to add the bonus from the new Yumcax Ring, but I don't know how much that is and how it gets added to the formula, but either way it doesn't seem like Minu >>>> Chaos.

let's also consider that COR is much more heavily influenced by dispels compared to any other support class.

Yeah that's true, I concur with this concern. COR certainly has it worse than GEO and BRD under this regard.

[Fwahm]

Chaos roll is stronger than Minuets are, the majority of the time.

3 +5 Minuets gives +227 attack (slightly more with minuet merits). Chaos Roll gives about 35%-55% attack with +5 ring. Minuets need Soul Voice just to come out even with Chaos Roll.

[Prothescar]

You're forgetting that Minuets add to base attack and are affected by any % increase you add onto them afterwards.

[Sechs]

Yeah you'd need a Daur99 and a Ghorn 99 and 5/5 merits and maybe even 10/10 Job points for Minu to get that far, and it would still be a static value.
I mean... if you consider these circumstances it's not really a "fair" comparison considering that COR doesn't need anything to perform that good and BRD needs a Relic, an Empy, 5 merits and 10 job points.
That's why I used 3x Song and Minu+4 example (+3 from instrument, +1 from AF3).


tl;dr
I agree COR needs something more, could use a new JA for a third roll and some other fixes. But potency-wise COR is already on a pretty good position compared to BRD.

[Draylo]

So Atomos confirmed a non-astral flow spell, should be interesting.

[Fwahm]

Yes, but Chaos Roll gets enhanced by additive attack like minuets and food, as well, and more effectively counters attack down debuffs.

[ccl]

Let's also not forget that minuet give str too.

[dasva]

With 3 GEO's you are looking at 9 bubbles total: 3 on players, 3 on the geo's a 3 on the mob. Even though they will only last 3 ish minutes, that does give for some interesting configurations. Maybe player buff bubbles on individuals (Att, Acc, Haste, or Regen) while using the stronger +Geomancy modified debuffs on the mob (Def Down, Evasion Down, etc).

Or even better outside pt of geos and a cor or 2 to prebuff the shit out of a pt then maybe let the idris in to stay with the pt!

[dasva]

brd is still the only job that can keep one of it's SP forever I doubt we'll ever stop using 5song brd.

I think Familiar might or at least gets close

[Damane]

Or even better outside pt of geos and a cor or 2 to prebuff the shit out of a pt then maybe let the idris in to stay with the pt!

if I have to do rotation shit on geo ima murder people ¬.¬

I would rather go the route of GEO/WHM GEO/WHM GEO/RDM (for ze debuffs) + 3 DD as 1 PT.

Rotate the 3. indi buff between geos, and each geo applys 1 buff or debuff, while standing on the backline and buffing themselfs up with focus + refresh + acumen for major nukeing power and endless MP for cure causes!

rotate indi-attack on the front line players, apply geo-frailty on the mobs, apply geo-torpor on the mob, apply geo-haste on melees ----> debuff the mob with distract frazzle ----> wail on.

[Tarage]

So Atomos confirmed a non-astral flow spell, should be interesting.

Boy I do not know what to think about this. On one hand, I'm glad I was wrong, but on the other hand... I don't know. How much use do either of those spells see? I guess it will depend on how potent it is...

Also this raises the problem of having a SMN have to unsummon his avatar to cast this spell. Clearly not built for soloing.

[dasva]

So qof adjustment says we will be able to remove augments from jse capes from wkr and incursion... does that mean wkr ones will have augments?

[Hitou]

inb4 we can use WKR KI to augment them like with weapons/gear.