Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Prothescar]

What are you people complaining about? A 40% chance to attack with a higher delay weapon (FOR FREE) and get free TP on a job that attacks as fast as NIN is already amazing.

[Kincard]

You're acting like NIN doesn't already glitch out with their katana swings.

Sange is gonna be powerful as hell during NIN SP2 by the way.

There's nothing that indicates that this will activate for each swing, Kick Attack doesn't, as far as I know. Probably just once a turn so SP2 won't do anything to it.

[Prothescar]

"Glitch out" how?

[Kyte]

Well arent kick attacks kinda crap dmg? they said it was similiar to how kick attacks is so low dmg wont surprise me. but the extra tp will be nice. And the animation thing is def something i was worried about.

When considering +Kick damage options, they were a bit more powerful than regular attacks at 75. However, even with +Kick damage boots, they are inferior at 99. So yes, it is a good comparison.

I'm guessing they'll have some kind of accelerated animation for it, similar to the speed of kick-attacks. It'll still get weird at capped attack speed, but that's true of everything.

What are you people complaining about? A 40% chance to attack with a higher delay weapon (FOR FREE) and get free TP on a job that attacks as fast as NIN is already amazing.

I'm pretty much visualizing the bitching ninjas as that baby.

[Kincard]

"Glitch out" how?

Was referring to people talking about how the animation would look weird. Pretty much every one hander already looks funny when they're hasted up, the only difference is that now occasionally you'll someone getting halfway through a throwing motion before going back to swinging swords. I imagine this will make a lot of cases where they're swinging barehanded because the animations screw that up sometimes too.

What are you people complaining about? A 40% chance to attack with a higher delay weapon (FOR FREE) and get free TP on a job that attacks as fast as NIN is already amazing.

as you guys are always quick to point out, that's not going to get ninjas invited to anything

[dasva]

Betcha it's only going to be 40% chance to proc once per attack round

[Byrthnoth]

So, some math:

227/227 with 35% DW gives 55 TP/hit
With capped magic/gear Haste (448+256)/1024, NIN needs 36% DW to cap delay
With capped magic/gear Haste and Haste Samba from a Dancer (448+256+101)/1024, NIN needs 7% DW to cap delay 
227/227 with 7% DW gives 68 TP/hit (+13TP/hit over 35% DW)

192 delay Shuriken gives 63 TP/hit (average of 25.2/round with a 40% proc rate)

In summary, the DW update wouldn't have affected NIN except in situations where they also had Haste Samba. If they did have Haste Samba, they would have averaged the same TP gain as they will now have with kick-shurikens as long as they swung 2 or more times per round. Funny thing about NIN is that they always swing two times per round. Also, they're rarely put in the same party as Dancers.

205/200 with 30% DW gives 54 TP/hit
With capped magic/gear Haste and Haste Samba from a Dancer (448+256+101)/1024, DNC needs 7% DW to cap delay 
205/200 with 7% DW gives 63 TP/hit (+9TP/hit over 30% DW)

63/54 = 16.7% TP gain increase

So Dancer would have benefited from the proposed DW change in every situation, because every Dancer situation involves a Dancer. Every other DW job lacks access to JA Haste (unless they sub Dancer), so they need 36% DW to cap delay and aren't necessarily hurt by their traits. What looked like it was going to be a sideways buff to Haste Samba was canceled in exchange for a JA for NIN that will benefit them all the time instead of just in the few cases where the DW cap was hurting them. In the cases where the DW cap was hurting them, Daken will likely be equivalent or a little worse than having the DW change. So SE, in pure defiance of logic, decided that a DW buff would be broken and canceled it.

[Damane]

Why would you want to remove the augment? Are there negative augments? Has anyone gotten an augmented cape and gone "Shit, I wish this didn't have X on it"?

as mentioned: to trade 3 of them to the NPC for another one

or they finally are putting the capes into a slip to be storable (remember you cant store augmented stuff on slips, like augmented sky gear etc.)

[Karbuncle]

as you guys are always quick to point out, that's not going to get ninjas invited to anything

Thank you.

Betcha it's only going to be 40% chance to proc once per attack round

I think that was confirmed? Idk, they said it would function similar to kick Attacks (aka only possible once per attack round)

I'm pretty much visualizing the bitching ninjas as that baby.

Jokes on you smart guy I don't even like the job.

[dasva]

I think that was confirmed? Idk, they said it would function similar to kick Attacks (aka only possible once per attack round)

Well SE plays fairly loose and fast with their comparisons... that said kick attacks can happen more than once a round.... inb4 sange will now work like footwork and allow oax throws lol

[Damane]

Well SE plays fairly loose and fast with their comparisons... that said kick attacks can happen more than once a round.... inb4 sange will now work like footwork and allow oax throws lol

I am honestly getting tired of those job adjustments, especially since they dont even adress the major flaws of the various jobs. I know balance can never be achieved, but atm its more of a mess then it was pre adoulin and those adjustments are bandaids at best. At this point its easier to nerf sam then to try to fix the other 1212112 melee jobs. dont even get me started on nukers -_-.

If they want to balance stuff they need to address 3 core problems first:
- Enmity
- JA delay
- Magic delay

and then we can start balancing stuff out.

[ccl]

You guys don't like daken, or are you just complaining to complain?(I even see complain about brd being too weak now and geo 3rd bubble being useless/weak wtf?) Each job has it's kind of event, Nin is the king for blink tank dd/nin fight(all AA, VD DM, stellar(w/o outside buff).

Most fight where people use rng setup(beside marja?) a nin setup is better; even if this only add 10% dps it is awesome already or do you guys just want nin to be able to use tachi: fudo ?

[Kincard]

Like usual people are arguing against points that were never made and making ridiculous comparisons. Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys are just really bad at grasping points or you just want to win an nonexistent argument, it's not like "winning" an argument around here changes anything so the only purpose should be exchange of ideas.

[ccl]

You complain about nin not being invited to anything while it's not true, nin is the king at some of current stuff and will most likely shine in avatar fight too, it's only not optimal for SP zerg fight/delveII/incursion. If anything rng is the most useless job that need buff atm.

[Sechs]

And in 1 fell swoop the whole making shuriken matter again falls on it's ass and off the cliff. Every level of shuriken was equivalent or better to some of the better 2hd weapons at that level in terms of base dmg and at lower levels it was often like 2-3 times the base dmg of your katanas.... and this stupid thing is lower than all 119 katana <.<

And you can accindentally expend such an EX ammo because Sange consumes them.
Yai.

I guess sometimes beying a pessimist pays off in terms that you won't be utterly disappointed by shit like this...

[Hitou]

Daken does not expend ammo unless you use sange. Unless that's what you were referring to. Either way the base damage is pretty disappointing but it might not be the only shuriken they add and it's still better than using a 75 era one.

[Sechs]

Even if it's not the only one they're going to add, you can pretty much get a "range" of damage they will have.
And we're talking about the "cool EX shuriken that drops from a BC" here, not about the "easy to obtain consumable shuriken", for which it would have been more acceptable to have shitty stats.

It's not that Daken is a bad thing don't get me wrong. It's just that it leaves a very sour taste in your mouth at the thought of what it could have been vs what it's coming out to be, I think this is the main culprit generating the disappointment.
It's not even a matter of it requiring huge difference, it was just a matter of a couple different very small things and it would have been perfect, but alas no.

[FaeQueenCory]

Like usual people are arguing against points that were never made and making ridiculous comparisons. Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys are just really bad at grasping points or you just want to win an nonexistent argument, it's not like "winning" an argument around here changes anything so the only purpose should be exchange of ideas.

Clearly you are new to the Internet... Because fan-made forum posts are SRSBZNS. ;p

Didn't they already state that at 99 daken will have a 40% activation rate?

And allegedly they also said that Atomos is AF-free... But... I haven't seen that.
And I just found it.
Weird.... and suspicious.
Probably gonna be restricted to Him or another avatar... cause I doubt they'd let us have two like that. Even if He's just a fancy spell.

[ronin sparthos]

I am honestly getting tired of those job adjustments, especially since they dont even adress the major flaws of the various jobs. I know balance can never be achieved, but atm its more of a mess then it was pre adoulin and those adjustments are bandaids at best. At this point its easier to nerf sam then to try to fix the other 1212112 melee jobs. dont even get me started on nukers -_-.

If they want to balance stuff they need to address 3 core problems first:
- Enmity
- JA delay
- Magic delay

and then we can start balancing stuff out.

Besides your point on JA delay you've got to be joking.

Since Matsui took this steaming pile of pre-Adoulin shit and attempted to make it something worth firing up once a month for a patch we've seen steady, new, interesting additions to almost all the jobs and an actual attempt to balance the classes. This is a straight buff to NIN, period. SMN gets a new toy and will never be king DD, SAM is still the easiest job to play, BRD is actually challenged directly by GEO, BLU has seen steady buffs every patch, RDM is viable etc etc.

Apparently you've forgotten about how things used to be when you're firing off at the hip that you're tired of job adjustments. A pox of Yilbegans and 3 month gaps between meaningless job adjustments fall upon you.

These patches continue to remind me that Tanaka drove this game into the ground and if we saw half of what we see today XI would be a flourishing MMO rather than the hospice it currently is.

[Arkanna]

Has it been CONFIRMED that the new GEO ability allows a 3rd bubble, or is it just supposition?