Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Damane]

The JA/Magic delay thing would be hella easy to fix... Because it would literally just be setting a variable in a formula to 0. (Or to 1 to account for any shenanigans.)
The question therein lies: was SE intelligent and used referential code and thus hard delay is a fundamental code in the entire system? Or did they tard it up and have every JA and spell finish/lead with that coding...
If it's the former, simple easy fix. If it's the later... Yeah... I wouldn't want to touch that at ALL.
That would be as harsh as the WS adjustments... And as we all remember those didn't happen without some WSs getting inverse WSmods and nonupdates.

i am not sure how JA delay and magic delay ties in. All i know is alot of stuff is linked/attached to animation that are attached to other stuff. Remember cure locking?

[Prothescar]

It's not as easy to fix as that. Removing JA/WS/Spell delay would unbalance the game like nothing before. Delays are necessary to balance out hybrid jobs and keep heavy DDs in check, as well as to keep healers from making everyone invincible. Retooling the delay on certain abilities would be helpful, but it can't even be completely removed on those. Steps and Maneuvers are the only things I'd consider applicable for adjustment.

For reference, removing WS delay alone would increase SAM's DPS by over 50%. Unsure of exact #, am estimating.

[FaeQueenCory]

It's not as easy to fix as that. Removing JA/WS/Spell delay would unbalance the game like nothing before. Delays are necessary to balance out hybrid jobs and keep heavy DDs in check, as well as to keep healers from making everyone invincible. Retooling the delay on certain abilities would be helpful, but it can't even be completely removed on those. Steps and Maneuvers are the only things I'd consider applicable for adjustment.

For reference, removing WS delay alone would increase SAM's DPS by over 50%. Unsure of exact #, am estimating.

That's true. Especially so with SAM and would even push Tsurumaru beyond REM levels due to the retention of TP.
Though on the other hand, 3s is what it is currently, iirc.
And I don't think reducing it to 1 would change anything. (still need TP, regular delay, etc)

But then we're right back to how it's coded.
Which upon thinking on it more.... it's probably coded per item.
Namely because I suspect that's why they don't adjust enmity wholesale and try to adjust it via other means... because to adjust it wholesale might mean changing a formula on every weapon/type, JA, spell, and monster in the game... which at that point you're basically reprogramming the whole game from 0.
Obviously I don't know.... but given how reticent they are at changing the formula itself for enmity... and given their wtf coding practices... I wouldn't be surprised. (it would also explain how the relic gun and bow WSs have a static enmity gain... because every things' enmity is defined by itself.)

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, eliminating WS (and to some extent Magic) delay would be a massive increase in DPS. It would require severe rebalancing across the board if that was done.

However, I think that Magic delay could be dropped from 3 to 2 seconds without any major impact on game balance. JA delay could go from being 1 second hard delay + 1 second soft delay to being just 1 second of soft delay without destroying anything. It isn't like DNC or PUP is suddenly going to become a runaway DD powerhouse if they have reduced JA delay, which is essentially the situation modeled in Motenten's sheets right now.

[Sechs]

They should consider it at least for Steps, Maneuvers and Runes.

[dasva]

Which upon thinking on it more.... it's probably coded per item.
Namely because I suspect that's why they don't adjust enmity wholesale and try to adjust it via other means... because to adjust it wholesale might mean changing a formula on every weapon/type, JA, spell, and monster in the game... which at that point you're basically reprogramming the whole game from 0.
Obviously I don't know.... but given how reticent they are at changing the formula itself for enmity... and given their wtf coding practices... I wouldn't be surprised. (it would also explain how the relic gun and bow WSs have a static enmity gain... because every things' enmity is defined by itself.)

Not sure what you mean there is no enmity formula for a lot of that. Weapons don't even play a part unless it has +/- enmity on them... which is just a set modifier on everything. Type doesn't matter at all. Most JAs/spells besides cures and dmg ones have static amounts already no formula. All cures are lumped together in one formula except cura's and dmg is all lumped together except a few specific weird things like the bow/gun relic ws. And remember they have already adjusted the values of like over half the static spells/jas in the game as well as cure and dmg dealt enmity like a year ago so it's clearly something they can and are willing to do. Because really in the end it's changing 2 formulas which are somewhat connected so might only really require 1 change... and then inputting different values for all the statics. Which judging by what they did last time involved a lot of making everything a lot more homogenous/destroying the enmity of a lot of things

Though I don't see why you'd do that after doing an overarching enmity adjustment. I mean the whole point of doing a system fix is so you wont need to adjust every little thing like they already have. Well and having to do it again a year or so later like now. Unless they do something incredibly stupid like simple raising the cap. However if they simple fix dmg dealt enmity right this time there would be little to no need for anything else except maybe minor balancing tweaks for a long time. Possibly till the end of the game

[FaeQueenCory]

They should consider it at least for Steps, Maneuvers and Runes.

What they should do for runes is add a 5m recast JA that gains a butt-ton of enmity (ala Sentinel) that throws up 3 runes of one type.
That'd pretty much fix every problem RUN has atm aside from physical damage (which now isn't that terribly bad... still basically NEED a D.Ring, but we're working on it).
They should even call it "Foruseafterlunge".

Not sure what you mean there is no enmity formula for a lot of that. Weapons don't even play a part unless it has +/- enmity on them... which is just a set modifier on everything. Type doesn't matter at all. Most JAs/spells besides cures and dmg ones have static amounts already no formula. All cures are lumped together in one formula except cura's and dmg is all lumped together except a few specific weird things like the bow ws. And remember they have already adjusted the values of like over half the static spells/jas in the game as well as cure and dmg dealt enmity like a year ago so it's clearly something that can be done.

Though I don't see why you'd do that after doing an overarching enmity adjustment. I mean the whole point of doing a system fix is so you wont need to adjust every little thing like they already have. Well and having to do it again a year or so later like now. Unless they do something incredibly stupid like simple raising the cap. However if they simple fix dmg dealt enmity right this time there would be little to no need for anything else except maybe minor balancing tweaks for a long time. Possibly till the end of the game

I meant that it's possible that we're thinking about "the enmity formula" in the wrong way.
While it would be better to have a "master formula" that is referenced whenever an action is taken....
I was pointing out how they could have been SUUUUUUUPER stupid and made it so that everything lists a "copy" of the formula within the action codes for.... well, everything.
So adjusting "the formula" wouldn't be as simple as just going in and changing a few variables within the master, like we want/need... it would be going through individual cases.
Which, thank you for reminding me, they have done in the past.... which makes me suspect that's what we're dealing with.
Another example of a similar thing is WS adjustments, seems like there isn't a universal WS damage formula that's referenced every time we WS, but it seems like that "base formula" is copied into each and every WS itself. (hence why some WSs got inverted WSmods)
I hope that explains better what I was postulating.
Not defending their stupid... but just pointing out that they may have made its extremely dumb to try and fix short of starting from "scratch."

[dasva]

They should consider it at least for Steps, Maneuvers and Runes.

Especially maneuvers and put them on a idk 5 minute duration. Having to use 3+ maneuvers a minute with all that delay is rediculous

[Podginator]

I feel they missed their opportunity to do remove/rebalance JA lock when they introduced ilvl - Older content is ridiculously easier already, and they could have factored in the increase in dps when adjusting new ilvl content.

Perhaps if our ilvl is increased further they could look in to doing it then, but it'll make a lot of the adoulin content easier than it already is.

JA Heavy jobs really need a fix though, especially consider they keep trying to fix Dancer with more JAs.

[Toth]

Especially maneuvers and put them on a idk 5 minute duration. Having to use 3+ maneuvers a minute with all that delay is ridiculous

Amen. That is such a needed change for PUP

[Damane]

Especially maneuvers and put them on a idk 5 minute duration. Having to use 3+ maneuvers a minute with all that delay is rediculous

i recommended this change allready like 3 times on the OF, but I cant do it anymore since I cant post there anymore!

[arus2001]

I'm trying to figure out what the doom and gloom would be for hybrids, really. For both JA and MP-based things, recast timers are still a factor. Though, for the MP jobs, running out trying to go balls out ASAP is a thing even with delays in place now. Or are people still stuck in that fucked up time period believing everyone would just RDM everything? I don't really mind WS delays, though, in part because it gives the mortals more time to swap stuff around and avoid the whole SAM RULEZ fear.

[Sechs]

Especially maneuvers and put them on a idk 5 minute duration. Having to use 3+ maneuvers a minute with all that delay is rediculous

That was suggested for the longest time, to have a stance that, while active, makes maneuvers last a lot but increases the chance to overload.
Your idea is even better, but yeah, it's kinda ridiculous that they last just 1 minute =/

[Draylo]

Surprised they don't have an update teaser trailer for this update.

[Yeager]

Regarding "Entrust" for GEO, wouldn't it make more sense to have it on a 5 Minute timer instead of 10 minutes taking into consideration the standard length of Indi spells being 3 minutes.

[Spira]

Surprised they don't have an update teaser trailer for this update.

i think cos its not a "major" update? seems like those are the ones that come with SoA missions

[dasva]

Regarding "Entrust" for GEO, wouldn't it make more sense to have it on a 5 Minute timer instead of 10 minutes taking into consideration the standard length of Indi spells being 3 minutes.

Maybe that means they are planning on adding more "Indicolure" spell duration gear? Current gear gets it near 4 minutes

[Trumpy]

Besides Bagua Pants +1 is there another armor that has Idiclosure Duration + ? I dont have Pants +1 but seems I only get like 12-18 seconds extra ( I cant recall exactly)

[The Assman]

Home Points spread throughout Whitegate. Nice.

[Yeager]

Maybe that means they are planning on adding more "Indicolure" spell duration gear? Current gear gets it near 4 minutes

That's true, as with my current augmented cape + gear, my Indi spells last 3:49. But I was under the impression that any spell that is "Entrust"ed to someone will not be under the influence of any duration+ gear that's on the GEO itself along with the Geomancy +5 from Dunna.