Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Ihina]

Maybe it's just me, but Atomos just screams 'stealing SP ability' to me. Maybe it does something stupid like being able to steal mighty strikes and gives it to all pt members in range.

[dasva]

That's true, as with my current augmented cape + gear, my Indi spells last 3:49. But I was under the impression that any spell that is "Entrust"ed to someone will not be under the influence of any duration+ gear that's on the GEO itself along with the Geomancy +5 from Dunna.

Dev note only said +geomancy and bolster. Could be nothing but skill effects it but I'd wager they were just stopping you from enhancing the potency

[Capuchin]

JA Heavy jobs really need a fix though, especially consider they keep trying to fix Dancer with more JAs.

JA delay is annoying, yes. But on DNC, it's kind of worth the tradeoff in personal delay in exchange for more potent debuffs that help the entire alliance. Oct update means 30 seconds to take a single step from nothing to level 10, and it's quite easy to manage two lv10 steps now.

To me it's perfectly clear that S-E is saying they want to push DNC main toward more of a defined debuffer role (somewhat competing with GEO RDM for that kind of slot, or indirectly competing with or complementary to BRD COR). So saying DNC is getting hosed is sort of like a COR complaining that they can't melee as much when they have to keep spending time with those pesky rolls and double-ups. It's never going to be on par with the top DD jobs, and that's by design (though DNC does get thrown a bone with B+ to A+ dagger this update).

i recommended this change allready like 3 times on the OF, but I cant do it anymore since I cant post there anymore!

PUP maneuvers though... yeah. It's been especially frustrating since RUN hit the scene with runes applied in basically the same way as maneuvers... but runes last 5min instead of 1min, and have 5sec recast instead of 10sec.

[Martel]

Maybe it's just me, but Atomos just screams 'stealing SP ability' to me. Maybe it does something stupid like being able to steal mighty strikes and gives it to all pt members in range.

Well, iirc SE stated it would work the same as absorb attr, and voracious trunk. Neither of which can steal SP. Same for sagasinger.

[Prothescar]

a 60 sec ability being able to steal SP and give it to everyone nearby would be stupid

[Ihina]

Oh. Could have sworn they said it would be something like Odin/Alex; guess I read it wrong.

[Draylo]

Most thought that at first, but now hes a summon and go spell. I like it better that way anyways.

[FaeQueenCory]

Oh. Could have sworn they said it would be something like Odin/Alex; guess I read it wrong.

like 3 years ago he was a 2hr... which really shows given how slow he is to do his thing. (which is also the reason why he's able to get enfeebled and will spread that herpes around)
But now he's a "1shot summon"... can't be used with another avatar out... but can be spammed every 60s. (or less I guess now that haste gear is plentiful and FC and all that.)

[Ophannus]

Just give DNC a Treasure Hunter Step and lets delete THF.

I think THF will be getting something good soon, its one of the jobs left that has t gotten a good buff. For starters I think they should buff Ambush by giving an extra 2% JA haste when behind mobs maybe a trait that converts DEX into attack(games like Dragon Age has a trait for high level thfs that lets them use Dex instead of Str in their attack modifiers), would be neat if THF got a trait that gave them 3/4's their Dex as attack in addition to what they get from STR. Thfs should get dw4 also or a job point that enhances dw. Also wheres this new ja thats supposed to compliment Sata? Maybe a ja that enhances crit damage or makes next crit deal double damage?

[Kincard]

Go figure that Byrth posts about DNC and Dual Wield and all they do is copypasta the clearly NIN-directed post from the Japanese Forums. Should've posted it on the Dancer Forums Byrth, that would've made it even better.

[Byrthnoth]

I can't remember the last time I saw a post by a community rep that wasn't a pure JP reply translation dropped into whatever thread had the most suitable title. I baited Camate with my title and he didn't bother reading the text. I considered putting it in the DNC forums, but I figured he would not have seen it if I had.

[Sechs]

Just give DNC a Treasure Hunter Step and lets delete THF.

Where do I sign for that?

[Podginator]

I can't remember the last time I saw a post by a community rep that wasn't a pure JP reply translation dropped into whatever thread had the most suitable title. I baited Camate with my title and he didn't bother reading the text. I considered putting it in the DNC forums, but I figured he would not have seen it if I had.

I can, they said you could cast Protect/Shell on puppets. Then they said they cast them on themselves. Then they admitted they were wrong.

I feel like since then they haven't said Jack that wasn't non-answer or factually incorrect.

They would have found an older General Thread about Dual Wield and bumped that if yours was in dancer, they've done that in the past.

[Malithar]

Unelonborro was pretty cool for a bit about posting non-copy pasta'd posts; they're also not a community rep specifically. They've gone quiet lately though, maybe they got some flak for being too talkative? Or maybe just busy localizing fuck tons of mission stuff.

[Podginator]

I was thinking that, he had his localization megathread and it just suddenly stopped. Feels like he got a memo telling him to stop divulging so much of the behind-the-scenes stuff.

[dasva]

I was thinking that, he had his localization megathread and it just suddenly stopped. Feels like he got a memo telling him to stop divulging so much of the behind-the-scenes stuff.

Which is funny because jp side already gets all that stuff

[FaeQueenCory]

I think THF will be getting something good soon, its one of the jobs left that has t gotten a good buff. For starters I think they should buff Ambush by giving an extra 2% JA haste when behind mobs maybe a trait that converts DEX into attack(games like Dragon Age has a trait for high level thfs that lets them use Dex instead of Str in their attack modifiers), would be neat if THF got a trait that gave them 3/4's their Dex as attack in addition to what they get from STR. Thfs should get dw4 also or a job point that enhances dw. Also wheres this new ja thats supposed to compliment Sata? Maybe a ja that enhances crit damage or makes next crit deal double damage?

But both of those ideas (JA haste and more DW) will just create more and more situations where DW will hurt the job.
Which was the whole thing behind Daken in the first place... sorta...

THF has very little DW and because of that isn't hurt too terribly by capped delay and excess DW. PLUS TA really makes up for that gimping too. Like... even with capped delay and excess DW, TA procing on both hands more than makes up for the slight gimping of TP from each hit.
So I don't think THF needs a "DW fix" like Daken... and giving it more DW or JA would create a situation therein where it would THEN need a "DW fix".
That being said, THF needs some help... and more than the "look, we made TH a thing in this event!" "help" that it's been getting recently.

As for BLU and DNC... The other jobs hindered by excess DW.
BLU isn't a "real" DW job... since it can elect to not be one... that being said, BLU also already has the tools to compensate for its DW-hindrance: TA and Store-TP.
TA works just like with THF where it doesn't matter that you get -50TP/hit, you just took 3~5 extra hits a round.
And Store-TP basically just negates the TP reduction that DW gives.
Which is why I say give DNC Store-TP and put a fork in the job.
Now that DNC is on crack with the 5s steps... AND it has "stacking" damage-spike abilities (ala flourish 3s = SATA)... AND its enfeebles go to 10... As well as divine seal for waltzes... DNC would be golden as a "frontline healer" if it had store-tp.
Which let's face it... DW-hindrance was 10000000x more a problem for DNC than it was for NIN. DNC already had to balance TP for heals and WSs and JAs... Store-TP would just make it golden and need no further adjustments.
As for how much? either 2 or 3. /sam gives it 2 so getting that much in the 80~90s range won't upset the job... just like how DW3 at those levels didn't upset THF.
And it wouldn't make SAMs butthurt cause they have Fudo and it wouldn't change the /dnc situation in the slightest.

[Kincard]

I presume since the Dual Wield spells arn't used as much anymore BLUs can just adjust their dual wield based on their team as appropriate, its just really annoying. I honestly think BLU is a really good job considering all the shit it can adjust to as appropriate, they really need to fix a lot of their debuffs and stuff though. That and I guess they need to put Magic Damage on swords more.

Would a DA or crit rate samba or something be a roundabout "fix" for the DW problem on DNC? Also they need to make steps not be so shitty.

With THF personally I think they should rework SA/TA somehow. If they want to play up the whole enmity control thing they're going to need to give them way more than just the 2 abilities they have (TA and Accomp/Collab). Never understood why they made the SCH SP2 what it was, they should've just given that to THF as like a 15 minute recast ability or something.

[Kyreth]

Where do I sign for that?

Same place Rangers got their Bounty Shot.

[dasva]

Not sure daken really fixes dual wield.... assuming it's just 40% per attack round it creates a situation where you can get more hits/second single wielding than dual wielding. Which is hilarious. Plus it doesn't address the problem at all. Just gives more tp to a job that may or may not be losing out on some.