Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Darkmagi]

Anyone who didn't see the game was at a total dead standstill before abyssea was getting their high off of the HNM scene and winning claims with bots or is pretty damn delusional. Abyssea was a damned good change from what we had at the time. They could have handled the 3rd abyssea a little better and made it a little harder, sure. It was still far better than the entire WOTG expansion and was far simpler to create.

[Snprphnx]

Whatever, it's evident that you're too inexperienced with MMO models to see this from more than a skewed angle. Continue believing that Abyssea is the spawn of the devil that made XI worse or whatever it is that you people think.

There are two trains of thought when it comes to abyssea. Those who love it and those who loved it initially but hated it after. Those who love it saw it as a way to get mostly top tier gear, with little commitment to a larger group, and as a way to get any and all jobs to 99 fast.
Those who loved and now hate it loved that it was an easy way to get mostly top tier gear and a fast way to get to 99. But they hated the fact that, in a way, it did hurt the game concepts to that point. They hated that anyone could be capped on merits, and that for endgame purposes, SE had hit the reset button, and due to how easy the gear was to obtain, as well as how much better the gear was in almost all situations, anyone could full time it and fit right in. Everyone playing a job had the same gear. There was no diversity. No rare items to really strive for. And yes, all this did hurt the game. After farming abyssea for a year, people were capped and saw no need to keep playing, so a lot of those who had succeeded in the old endgame mold ended up quitting. This left a void in those larger shells and many of them broke up. And those that didn't had to fill those voids with new people. Often times, these people leeched their jobs and gear in abyssea, and really had no clue on how to actually play the jobs. They had to actually learn MP management, and how to actually keep proper buffs up and how to remove them. DDs had to learn how to use PDT and MDT sets, and most importantly, they had to learn about this amazingly new stat called "Accuracy".

[Snprphnx]

Whatever, it's evident that you're too inexperienced with MMO models to see this from more than a skewed angle. Continue believing that Abyssea is the spawn of the devil that made XI worse or whatever it is that you people think.

There are two trains of thought when it comes to abyssea. Those who love it and those who loved it initially but hated it after. Those who love it saw it as a way to get mostly top tier gear, with little commitment to a larger group, and as a way to get any and all jobs to 99 fast.
Those who loved and now hate it loved that it was an easy way to get mostly top tier gear and a fast way to get to 99. But they hated the fact that, in a way, it did hurt the game concepts to that point. They hated that anyone could be capped on merits, and that for endgame purposes, SE had hit the reset button, and due to how easy the gear was to obtain, as well as how much better the gear was in almost all situations, anyone could full time it and fit right in. Everyone playing a job had the same gear. There was no diversity. No rare items to really strive for. And yes, all this did hurt the game. After farming abyssea for a year, people were capped and saw no need to keep playing, so a lot of those who had succeeded in the old endgame mold ended up quitting. This left a void in those larger shells and many of them broke up. And those that didn't had to fill those voids with new people. Often times, these people leeched their jobs and gear in abyssea, and really had no clue on how to actually play the jobs. They had to actually learn MP management, and how to actually keep proper buffs up and how to remove them. DDs had to learn how to use PDT and MDT sets, and most importantly, they had to learn about this amazingly new stat called "Accuracy".

[Tarage]

Abyssea saved this game. Yes, it had issues, but if you honestly believe the old days of leveling for days just to ding up, only to delevel once you got killed at an HNM you were called in to at 4 am on a work day was somehow good... don't know what to tell you. Abyssea had so many great ideas, including being able to target drops. The stagger system made it so nearly every job had some purpose in the group. And it will always be a fond memory for me as the time where I went from having to pay MP just to have my avatars existing to being able to actually fight with them for a change. You will never be able to convince me Abyssea was a bad direction for the game. You are simply wrong.

[Kyreth]

Abyssea was meant to be a "farewell" expansion. We were supposed to get all the candy, FFXI would Armageddon out of there ala FFXIV 1.0: Devs were (not) prepared and we'd all be happily going through FFXIV now instead.

Of course, it didn't work that way. And the only way to really go from "The End" was "New Game +". Adoulin, vertical progression, and watching people's gearset change every few months as more 119-ish gear pours in and FFXI actually is so with it, they take barely months-old content and let us cash in the now junk gear for bayld.

Abyssea was overkill. FoV/GoV with a few tweaks would have gotten people to 99 and meriting just fine, never mind what you can do soloing Adoulin now. But it was SUPPOSED to be overkill, the fireworks at the end of the world. If FFXIV hadn't folded as bad as it did the first time around, we might never have even seen Adoulin. Instead, S-E suffered a crisis of confidence and we're getting an extra chapter or two for an FFXI epilogue.

Me, I'd like to go see Tenzen and hang in the Far East.

[Toth]

Abyssea was meant to be a "farewell" expansion. We were supposed to get all the candy, FFXI would Armageddon out of there ala FFXIV 1.0: Devs were (not) prepared and we'd all be happily going through FFXIV now instead.

Of course, it didn't work that way. And the only way to really go from "The End" was "New Game +". Adoulin, vertical progression, and watching people's gearset change every few months as more 119-ish gear pours in and FFXI actually is so with it, they take barely months-old content and let us cash in the now junk gear for bayld.

Abyssea was overkill. FoV/GoV with a few tweaks would have gotten people to 99 and meriting just fine, never mind what you can do soloing Adoulin now. But it was SUPPOSED to be overkill, the fireworks at the end of the world. If FFXIV hadn't folded as bad as it did the first time around, we might never have even seen Adoulin. Instead, S-E suffered a crisis of confidence and we're getting an extra chapter or two for an FFXI epilogue.

Me, I'd like to go see Tenzen and hang in the Far East.

Aside from the beginning when SE screwed up big time with delve weapons outclassing everything, I think SE has done much better with gear in the past year. Every update gives us some new toys but nothing as earth-shattering as those delve weapons. Incursion offering us randomly augmented job capes was a smart (but sometimes infuriating) way to keep content relevant.

[Seha]

The all-stats festival on all equipment is what I don't like abut Adoulin. I hardly ever look at gear with awe anymore :/

[ccl]

Same I wish they could just turn stat vomit into a single stat "ilvl attribute stat 119" then add w/e extra they add or something

[Damane]

There are two trains of thought when it comes to abyssea. Those who love it and those who loved it initially but hated it after. Those who love it saw it as a way to get mostly top tier gear, with little commitment to a larger group, and as a way to get any and all jobs to 99 fast.
Those who loved and now hate it loved that it was an easy way to get mostly top tier gear and a fast way to get to 99. But they hated the fact that, in a way, it did hurt the game concepts to that point. They hated that anyone could be capped on merits, and that for endgame purposes, SE had hit the reset button, and due to how easy the gear was to obtain, as well as how much better the gear was in almost all situations, anyone could full time it and fit right in. Everyone playing a job had the same gear. There was no diversity. No rare items to really strive for. And yes, all this did hurt the game. After farming abyssea for a year, people were capped and saw no need to keep playing, so a lot of those who had succeeded in the old endgame mold ended up quitting. This left a void in those larger shells and many of them broke up. And those that didn't had to fill those voids with new people. Often times, these people leeched their jobs and gear in abyssea, and really had no clue on how to actually play the jobs. They had to actually learn MP management, and how to actually keep proper buffs up and how to remove them. DDs had to learn how to use PDT and MDT sets, and most importantly, they had to learn about this amazingly new stat called "Accuracy".

people didnt know how to play jobs pre abyssea. pdt and mdt etc sets were something high end players used. the wayof lvling doesnt matter and it definitly didnt teach you how to play your job. everytime someone brings that up i think how much bullshit that is.

linkshells didnt break up because people didnt feel unique but because:
1. you didnt need the amount of people anymore
2. thus some were left in the dust (linkshell fault), gladlymy shell did aby runs as an ally so almost noone was left behind
3. you didnt have do deal with asshole members or leaders
4. usually those people that quit because they didnt feel special anymore were the assholes noone wanted to bother with anymore

[Malithar]

Abyssea was meant to be a "farewell" expansion. We were supposed to get all the candy, FFXI would Armageddon out of there ala FFXIV 1.0: Devs were (not) prepared and we'd all be happily going through FFXIV now instead.

That's what I always assumed Aby was meant to be as well. I'm glad it didn't go that way, but the amount of power we gained from KIs was far too immense to be taken as just another step in progression. Ended up being a pretty fun play area though. At this point though, I wish they'd sorta nerf it's exp so people would be more keen on CP parties in Adoulin. Then again, camps are limited, just annoying when you're missing 1 or 2 from your static and you wind up using trusts cause a large portion of the player base is still on the lolCP kick.

[Ophannus]

Abyssea was quite balancing in my opinion because almost every job was powerful. Of course ukko and vere were the strongest, any job could do massive damage. Jobs that were lackluster DD suddenly were on par with the others, THF, NIN, BLU, DNC, DRG, PUP, BLM, SCH, SMN were all formidable in their own right. I think it was the most comparatively balanced all jobs have ever been(and brd was semi useless, which is awesome for a change). Any job could main heal small parties or NMs. Hell I did tons of empy 90 NMs with a BLU healer in an HP set using AoE 2.5k White Winds or even drg/mage with atma of dragon rider. I think it was the closest thing ever to job balance because procs aside, any DD could do good damage, and rdm/sch/blu could heal almost as well as a whm, nin mnk pld and dnc all tanked well when geared right. It was like everything became feasible. Sure WAR and MNK were the best dd but PUPs and DRGs could still do 6k drakesbanes or stringing pummels etc.

Actually i think its ironic that the best dds in content up to Abyssea had been Apoc DRKs and Hagun SAMs and in abyssea SAM and DRK were relatively weak due to not having crit weapon skills. It's like everything was turned on its head. I mean during 75 content WAR was decent with Steel cyclone and MNK was good for merits but neither were used very much for HNMs like DRK and SAM were. So DDs that were usually unused like nin drg dnc pup mnk became great in abyssea.

Although the content was easy, every job I think was able to play fine(procs aside). Nobody brings nukers for DD in content since 75(or in SoA for aura gimmicks) but at least in Abyssea, SCH and BLM could drop 7k nukes or 3k helices, and even RDM could nuke at a respected level.

[Darkmagi]

That's what I always assumed Aby was meant to be as well. I'm glad it didn't go that way, but the amount of power we gained from KIs was far too immense to be taken as just another step in progression. Ended up being a pretty fun play area though. At this point though, I wish they'd sorta nerf it's exp so people would be more keen on CP parties in Adoulin. Then again, camps are limited, just annoying when you're missing 1 or 2 from your static and you wind up using trusts cause a large portion of the player base is still on the lolCP kick.

I quit, but I think nerfing abyssea exp would destroy adoulin CP farming, the good camps are way too limited. Would be like TOAU camp competition. More like add CP To abyssea, but at a lesser rate(Even accounting for massively increased kill speed)

[Damane]

I quit, but I think nerfing abyssea exp would destroy adoulin CP farming, the good camps are way too limited. Would be like TOAU camp competition. More like add CP To abyssea, but at a lesser rate(Even accounting for massively increased kill speed)

hence why i would like a continuation of abyssea in adoulin or aht urgahn involving CP instead of exp and plasm instead of cruor.

[Prothescar]

plasm instead of cruor.

no

[Damane]

no

why not? delve is slowly dying, by the time we may hit new abyssea would be nice for returning players or others for Relic upgrades no?

[Prothescar]

it's pointless. if someone has trouble finding 2-4 more people to do Delve with then there's bigger problems at hand than plasm availability. let's not forget what having resources tied to the cruor acquisition system means in the long term and that, with adding plasm as the primary resource of Neo Abyssea, new items and things would become available through it.

[Seha]

Fuck more abyssea. And no, I don't talk about the gameplay, but why should we hope for more multiverse bs when there's 3 continents to explore? Want an aby-like experience? Good, but put it in a relevant new place.

[fantasticdan]

I doubt SE will divert enough resources to FFXI again for that with how poorly SoA is doing.

[Snprphnx]

I quit, but I think nerfing abyssea exp would destroy adoulin CP farming, the good camps are way too limited. Would be like TOAU camp competition. More like add CP To abyssea, but at a lesser rate(Even accounting for massively increased kill speed)

I disagree. Most abyssea parties are made by people who want to leech a job to 99, so they get a few other 99s to help out. The last few parties I have been in only had 4-5 ppl at 99. Two BLM, three random DD pulling/skilling up. The rest were lvl 30-80, all but one leeching. Since you can't leech good xp in a real party like that, all nerfing abyssea xp would do is make those who leech 30-99 go somewhere else.

[PSOfanatic]

Ccl wins. I like that idea a lot. Adding generalized istat attribute+ on to gear with the real extra stats appearing. Great idea that SE won't utilize.