Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Karbuncle]

I'm pretty sure I've been dropped by it when I was standing behind her for SA

[Prothescar]

Well I've definitely never been hit by it unless I had hate off of my bird, I've definitely never been out of melee range except to outrun banishga, and I've definitely solo'd the fight before.

[Karbuncle]

I apologize for assaulting the honor of your family. I'll take your word for it.

[dasva]

Well pets generally don't get as close to mobs as players can get and if it's centered around the target then that could mean you are both right....

Anyways kinda curious how they plan on increasing auto attack dmg for 1hders

[fantasticdan]

Yeah a small AoE around the target rather than the NM would also explain it.

[Martel]

not a full radial AoE

One possibility is that it could be full radial, but centered around the target player rather than the mob. On a short ranged AoE, this would create a safe spot behind the mob as long the target was in front of the mob.

EDIT:looks like I should a refreshed the page.

[Foldypaws]

Well pets generally don't get as close to mobs as players can get and if it's centered around the target then that could mean you are both right....

Anyways kinda curious how they plan on increasing auto attack dmg for 1hders

Lowering the delay cap for 1 handers is about the only way I could see them doing it, with the way the system is set up right now. (Assuming they didn't just want to raise D value, which would also increase WS damage)

[Priran]

Lowering the delay cap for 1 handers is about the only way I could see them doing it, with the way the system is set up right now. (Assuming they didn't just want to raise D value, which would also increase WS damage)

Adding more attacks-per-round traits like Daken/improving existing ones like TA and Kicks?

[dasva]

Lowering the delay cap for 1 handers is about the only way I could see them doing it, with the way the system is set up right now. (Assuming they didn't just want to raise D value, which would also increase WS damage)

Would probably take a decent amount to do that enough where it might make use of any jas and possibly even wsing on some jobs a dps loss lol.

[NynJa]

Jfc
TH is not a reason for THF to be a shit tier DD

[Draylo]

Compared to what? THF doesn't do that bad in dmg, or are you comparing it to SAM?

[Karbuncle]

Compared to what? THF doesn't do that bad in dmg, or are you comparing it to SAM?

Well, seeing as how SAM exists and is pretty much the baseline for comparison as a DD, I'd probably say yes. But it doesn't matter how awesome a DD THF would become really, cause its "Best or nothing" in XI and it would be insane to ask if all DD jobs could be equal. I mean THF has TH, but SAM has crazy SC potential, WAR has decent tanking potential, MNK has awesome HP and defensive abilities, DRK has absorbs and such... I mean every DD job has some additional utility to it that makes it unique from other DD jobs... not just 1-handers. (And yes I see how equalizing DD jobs would make SAMs SC potential still either A) Make it a better DD or B) be required to make it on par with other DD, nullifying the bonus)

This is now where we pretend THF is perfectly fine because of TH and is a job that always gets in the buff part and can perform to its full potential and never at all delegated to an off party to be a TH whore, or f**k it bring the mule with TH Gear. Forgive me if I skip the rest of this conversation as I've heard it all before.

[NynJa]

Compared to what? THF doesn't do that bad in dmg, or are you comparing it to SAM?

Place these melee jobs, geared with good gear, in order from best DD to worst DD:
WAR MNK THF PLD DRK BST RNG SAM NIN DRG BLU PUP DNC RUN

[Sechs]

It's a bit of a dog chasing its tail imho.
If you make DDs different it's all deeper, feels more "variegated", we probably like it more, but then it becomes hard to balance (or rather: to keep the damage potential distance of different jobs within a small, acceptable distance range).
If you make all DDs more similar it's easier to maek them interchangeable, but then they all feel more similar, it all becomes homogeneized and in a game with over 22 jobs that's kinda a problem.

It's true that in a game where you can swap job without swapping character (which is what happen in most other MMOs) this is less of an issue and they cannot expect players to be so adamant that they want to play a single job all of the time.
But there's a limit to that. I have several jobs I enjoy playing, I'm not asking to use them all of the time or to be perfectly interchangeable, but it would be nice if I could use them at least once in a while.


Still, while the situation atm clearly favours SAM over all other DD options, I wonder how much of this depends on the current game-balance situation and how much depends on the players' mindset.
I cannot give percentages, but I'm pretty sure both aspects contribute to create this scenario.
Realistically a very good MNK is probably as good if not better than a bad, pickup SAM. They have a small skillchain bonus job trait and their WS (Victory Smite) do not interrupt the flow of Skillchain generated by Fudo spam. They have nice damage over time, they have a lot of HP and provide a small utility to the party (Mantra, Magic damage etc)
Yet people would be very reluctant to take a good MNK before a SAM.
Only place where I saw MNK been shouted for lately is Shadow Lord because of Formless Strikes for the Magic damage phase.

Still, how do you solve this situation without breaking SAM and leaving the situation exactely as it is now, but with a different job covering SAM's spot? One could say MNK was in the current SAM's position before the WS/SC rehaul (altough honestly the situation didn't seem as bad as the current one to me. MNK was clearly favoured but you would see other DDs shouted for and accepted as well)
It's a tricky situation, it's like a very delicate Pendulum that's currently swinging on the right. Even a small tip of the finger would likely make it swing on the left instead of bringing it back to the center...

[NynJa]

I'd rather "were happy with thief as is" (stupid statement) over "were aware thief is far behind on the totem pole, but we feel this is balanced because Treasure Hunter" (stupid ignorant statement).

[Keme]

Place these melee jobs, geared with good gear, in order from best DD to worst DD:
WAR MNK THF PLD DRK BST RNG SAM NIN DRG BLU PUP DNC RUN

You may forgot COR in that list. Nobody said it's a buff-only job.

[Sechs]

I smell a big fail from the latest news Kinstar just translated about Unity Concord.
Or am I being pessimistic here?

[Mefuki]

...we did not mention that that statement was made under the assumption of a situation you are not receiving support such as from haste. We considered situations where players may still be low level...

That is so strange. At this stage, why would that ever be a consideration for job balance? Is this why we're not getting certain adjustments, like on BST. "Well, BST pets seem pretty powerful at level 50 but SAM's SC damage is lacking at that level. Time for some 'adjustments'."

Edit: Let me clarify: I know there are new/returning players coming in. I've seen that in my own LS. But what I'm saying is why bother with job balance at low levels when no one does any events at those levels? Is SE really concerned about everyone getting an equal shot at a Garrison party? Either way, Kincard is right, it's probably not a HUGE consideration but the fact that it's a consideration at all is strange to me. I don't know, maybe I'm lacking information.

[Kincard]

I still see a new Japanese player now and again, and I've only heard experiences from newer English players on forums, but they do exist, so I understand at least a little bit of concern trying to keep things from being too broken at low levels. I doubt it's any sort of huge emphasis, though.

I don't think the new info on Unity Concord really tells us too much, it's probably going to be 100% reliant on how good the drops are.
One thing they haven't mentioned is if Unity Points are shared between all of them. This could mean players could go to lower ranking ones to get points, then transfer to the higher ones to get equipment they want? I dunno.

[Treize Kordero]

They confirmed the multiple linkshell thing is still coming and Unity Concord isn't a replacement for that feature. Which is great news to me. I'm also curious about how this Unity Concord system will work gear wise and how it will pan out. If it's fun content with room for growth that gives us gear reminiscent of delve gear then I think it might be ok.

To clarify what I meant by "reminiscent of delve gear" is that if the augment system is going to be used on unity gear that it won't be that random try your luck crap but a step by step improve based on unity rank or something like that.