Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Lyramion]

Looks like Xbox FFXI is having trouble atm:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/44...-0006/#2742320

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-%28xbox360%29

[ccl]

I think sadly it's too late in the game life for them to care enough the redo the whole tp gain speed and they buffed it not so long ago, so they most likelt now we're way too strong but just keep it that way so everyone can do the content.

ps: fiv if they don't fix this before I'm legend I'll make run ergon instead of geo!

[Damane]

I think sadly it's too late in the game life for them to care enough the redo the whole tp gain speed and they buffed it not so long ago, so they most likelt now we're way too strong but just keep it that way so everyone can do the content.

ps: fiv if they don't fix this before I'm legend I'll make run ergon instead of geo!

why only run, do both!

[ccl]

Doing both would require me to actually play to farm gil; I barelly have time to do imprimantur atm so I don't think I can do both

[Hitou]

Unless you're WSing in relic 119 body and have miser's roll up Tsurumaru isn't going to save you any swings since SAM can already get a 4 hit easy enough on any GKT. Not sure why there's so much vitriol dropping from everyone's lips about that ugly thing. I'd be fine with them removing it from the game. Can get rid of Koga too and SAM for that matter. Go back to MNK only days that weren't even that long ago.

[Damane]

Unless you're WSing in relic 119 body and have miser's roll up Tsurumaru isn't going to save you any swings since SAM can already get a 4 hit easy enough on any GKT. Not sure why there's so much vitriol dropping from everyone's lips about that ugly thing. I'd be fine with them removing it from the game. Can get rid of Koga too and SAM for that matter. Go back to MNK only days that weren't even that long ago.

doubtfully back to mnk only, other DDs have gotten alot of HP push up, if mantra and formless strikes are a necessery yes, otherwise it wouldnt matter much with which DD you roll.

[dasva]

You know one funny way of reducing tp gain would be to add the same after hit delay that ranged attacks have to melee ones... oh god the uproar from that would be the great. Imagine having to wait half second after each swing before you can do anything... and to top it off lets make it so you can't do anything during the swing itself too

[Hitou]

Only NIN and RUN got any HP boost worth mentioning. Maybe WAR I've honestly forgotten already. My point is nerfing or removing SAM isn't gonna make undesired jobs suddenly useful. No ones gonna bring DRK to things they don't already bring it to, and no one is ever going to bring BST PUP DNC THF as DD in party situations.

So again, I'm not saying to leave SAM as is. Undo the SC changes, or nerf multi-step. As huge a deal as everyone seems to be making it out to be I've never witnessed any SAM solo DD crap down and I've never done it myself either. I guess it's a privileged peoples problem and something that can't be avoided by simply not bringing SAM to things.

[Xantavia]

Would it bring stuff closer in line if they were to bring back SC resistances back in a limited fashion? So like after making light, the mob gets a resistance to all skillchains of those elements for the next minute. So in order to keep up damage, you are going to need to mix up what you are doing, instead of relying on the same sequence over and over again.

[Byrthnoth]

The SC patch is an interesting mechanic that encourages more complicated play and shouldn't be reversed. If they're going to nerf SAM, WS damage is the clear way to go.

[fantasticdan]

How is doing level 3 light WS -> level 3 light WS ad infinitum complicated?

[dasva]

It's not but it is more so than before. Especially since as previously discussed it is even more advantageous to multi step

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, 5-stepping is much more damaging than doing a bunch of 2-step lights.

2 WSs:
Fudo -> Fudo -(Double Light x1.0)
Fudo x(3+SC Bonus) : 1.5+SC Bonus*0.5 Fudos per WS


5 WSs:
Shoha -> Fudo -(Distortion x0.6)> Kasha -(Fusion x0.75)> Shoha -(Light x1.75)> Fudo -(Double Light x2.0)
Fudo x(4.6+SC Bonus*2.6) : 0.92 + SC Bonus*0.52 Fudos per WS
Shoha x(3.75 + SC Bonus*1.75) : 0.75 + SC Bonus*0.35 Shohas per WS
Kasha x(1.75 + SC Bonus*0.75) : 0.35 + SC Bonus*0.15 Kashas per WS


With AM3 activating Rana:
Rana -> Shoha -(Fragmentation x0.6)> Fudo -(Distortion x0.75)> Kasha -(Fusion x1.0)> Shoha -(Light x2.0)> Fudo -(Double Light x2.25)
Rana x1
Shoha x(4.6 + SC Bonus*2.6)
Fudo x(5 + SC Bonus*3)
Kasha x(2 + SC Bonus)
It's 1AM. I'm not doin that math.

Even if your Shohas and Kashas did half as much damage as your Fudos, it would probably be worth 5-stepping instead of 2-stepping. I'd probably use a lot of multi-attack gear in my Kasha set, though. Breaking up the skillchain with a whiff is a big penalty.

[NynJa]

One of the problems with the SC patch is it didnt encourage full party dynamics (specifically: a greater usage for magic bursting). They've made SC's a reliable source of damage, but in the time it takes a mage to magic burst something, as I said before, any DD could have output greater damage than the MB would have done. 30% bonus was good way back when mages were MBing for 2k damage and your average melee was WSing for 1k, and probably no one else had TP to use. With an average T5 nuke doing 4-5k damage (I'm guessing), bumping that up to 5200-6500 is kinda redundant when the melee is probably already doing more than that with their WS.

If you change that 30% to 300% with enmity generated pre multiplier, that nuke is now doing 12000-15000. Is that a bit much? Not really, considering as said, the damage from the MB with the melee holding TP is lower than the damage that would have been generated if the melee's were just blowing their load. It might actually still be a bit low. If the effort of A is greater than the effort of B, but B yields lower results, no one is going to do B, other than purists who "insist on doing it the right way". If the effort of A is greater than the effort of B, and both yield similar results, same thing, no ones going to bother with A. The result of A needs to be significantly higher than the result of B if you want people to do A if theres greater effort involved (or sacrifices to someones parse). And if it makes mages overpowered, who gives a shit? its still fully reliant on some sort of party coordination, lots more so than "make sure I, the sam, have all my buffs, then go sit in the corner and touch yourself at how godly I am".


I hope the linkshell concierge is a sign that they're working on multiple LS's.

[Hitou]

While interesting if really limited, I don't think the linkshell concierge service is gonna be any more effective than shouting "X linkshell recruiting! No requirements! gather times blah blah blah" And then giving out pearls to anyone that replies. It'd be a good way to fill a social shell but an endgame one would be a nightmare.

[Tarage]

I have no fucking clue how much use avatar skillchaining is going to see outside of soloing.

[Miroku_Asura]

Ideally, the 70 pacts plus E. Bite will chain with themselves to make either Light or Darkness. I could see popping Conduit and spamming T3 skillchains with accompanying merit Blood Pact magic bursts, which, if I'm remembering correctly, have a good amount of +Magic Burst Damage gear available to them.

[Lyramion]

One of the problems with the SC patch is it didnt encourage full party dynamics (specifically: a greater usage for magic bursting). They've made SC's a reliable source of damage, but in the time it takes a mage to magic burst something, as I said before, any DD could have output greater damage than the MB would have done.

Yeah, 5-stepping is much more damaging than doing a bunch of 2-step lights.

Suprisingly there is a niche here for MBing in the 1SAM 5 Support setups. MBing every step of a 5 way skillchain will compliment the dmg of the DD without interfering with his flow. With good fastcast gear and/or timing you are able to hit the MBs without your SAM having to hold back even 1 second.


On another note... this just gave me a fun idea to randomly let some Immanence nukes "accidently" flow out and let the SAM think he is incompetent at Skillchaining today.

[Malithar]

Suprisingly there is a niche here for MBing in the 1SAM 5 Support setups. MBing every step of a 5 way skillchain will compliment the dmg of the DD without interfering with his flow. With good fastcast gear and/or timing you are able to hit the MBs without your SAM having to hold back even 1 second.:

You just want an excuse for me to use Acumen and Malaise. Don't lie.

You nuking always makes me think back to when we duoed Ignor or whatever Velkk wiped the party we were in. -DT sets are silly.

[Ophannus]

I have no fucking clue how much use avatar skillchaining is going to see outside of soloing.

WKR