Dev Tracker: Discussion

[The Assman]

It sounds to me that jobs will receive various boons based on job points used regardless of where exactly they were used, and they will start with basic job traits like say "Attack Bonus + X per Y WAR job points used."

[Capuchin]

A lot of people has been saying that lately, it DOES make some sense I suppose, but it gives me very mixed feelings personally.

I *loved* Abyssea, but it was like a game within the game, a different game within FFXI. Until sometime after Heroes of Abyssea we basically had almost nothing to do outside. 90% of our activities were inside Abyssea.
Do we really want to go back to that paradygm of game?
Atmas became broken since after the release of Scars of Abyssea and the temp/permanent buffs became way too powerful.

The idea of an ilevel Abyssea without Atmas excites me and scares me at the same time. Not sure I'd want the game to go back there again...

I'd be fine with it. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for a straight up 4th Abyssea mini-expansion. Add maws for three new Abyssea zones (maybe all Adoulin areas) and just do an ilevel version of Abyssea. Maybe have some unique proc systems or other gameplay mechanics. I don't mind continuing the use of Atmas, but I'd be cool with them being unique to Abyssea-Adoulin zones (i.e. you can earn an Atma slot or two but can't use Vision/Seekers/Heroes atma in the zones, only Abyssea-Adoulin atma).

Could easily do upgrade items for reforged Empy gear. Maybe 2 tiers, NQ of a certain ilvl and +1 for another bump up in ilvl. You COULD have part of the requirements obtained outside of Abyssea, but personally I really wouldn't mind 90% of my time focused on the Abyssea zones.

Could address the glaring availability issues for one or both of HMPs and H-P Bayld. Maybe make H-P Bayld farmable and use it for something in addition to RUN+GEO ergon (say, required for reforging any Empy armor), to motivate people to farm it and get some circulation going.

Maybe have lights mechanics where you can generate large amounts of Capacity Points, but little exp (giving some reason to get exp outside of Neo-Abyssea).

MINIATURE TOJILS running around would be pretty amazing As would poppable NMs using the excellent Naakual designs (if nothing else, great for BLU spells to give an alternative to WKRs or begging people to let you come Delve on BLU).

[Damane]

I'd be fine with it. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for a straight up 4th Abyssea mini-expansion. Add maws for three new Abyssea zones (maybe all Adoulin areas) and just do an ilevel version of Abyssea. Maybe have some unique proc systems or other gameplay mechanics. I don't mind continuing the use of Atmas, but I'd be cool with them being unique to Abyssea-Adoulin zones (i.e. you can earn an Atma slot or two but can't use Vision/Seekers/Heroes atma in the zones, only Abyssea-Adoulin atma).

Could easily do upgrade items for reforged Empy gear. Maybe 2 tiers, NQ of a certain ilvl and +1 for another bump up in ilvl. You COULD have part of the requirements obtained outside of Abyssea, but personally I really wouldn't mind 90% of my time focused on the Abyssea zones.

Could address the glaring availability issues for one or both of HMPs and H-P Bayld. Maybe make H-P Bayld farmable and use it for something in addition to RUN+GEO ergon (say, required for reforging any Empy armor), to motivate people to farm it and get some circulation going.

Maybe have lights mechanics where you can generate large amounts of Capacity Points, but little exp (giving some reason to get exp outside of Neo-Abyssea).

MINIATURE TOJILS running around would be pretty amazing As would poppable NMs using the excellent Naakual designs (if nothing else, great for BLU spells to give an alternative to WKRs or begging people to let you come Delve on BLU).

if anythign the new abyssea addon (if there comes one) should give CP instead of EXP and Plasm instead of Cruor (not bayld). Just to keep stuff for AF and Relic upgrades circulating and for people to catch up via plasm gear.

[dasva]

And then upgrading af3 will involve trials where you have to get CP in certain abyssea zones while wearing them!

[Ophannus]

Actually if SE is following the same pattern, it'll be Rem Tales, 1 generic synth mat from BCNMs such as Marlboro Fibers, Phoenix Feathers, one Abyssea/VW/Prov/Meebles related synh mat like Iolite/Palladium Brass/Wyrdstrand Cloth/Wyrm Blood/Simian Mane. Then for 119, it'll be like Staghorn Coral, Penalope Cloth, Scarletite Ingot, etc(equivalent of Pil/Celaeno/Voidwraught items) then some new, expensive, NM synth mat, likely from new Unity NM's(equivalent of Yggrdreant Bole etc).

I would save Legion/VW synth mats on the offchance they make them relevant again. I knew guys that stocked up on Celaeno Cloths and Pil's plates when they were 5k each, capped gil when reforged came out.

[Shenrien]

If square would take my damn money I would gladly play and be active for a 4th abyssea, even more so if they have its own set of unique atma that can only be used in the zones to avoid the absolute broken setups you can use in old abyssea. The new atma could be used in old zones as well, give them some fancy name like Semi-Pure Atma of the Donkey's left hoof.

[Damane]

If square would take my damn money I would gladly play and be active for a 4th abyssea, even more so if they have its own set of unique atma that can only be used in the zones to avoid the absolute broken setups you can use in old abyssea. The new atma could be used in old zones as well, give them some fancy name like Semi-Pure Atma of the Donkey's left hoof.

the broken things were exactly what made abyssea fun. You could do some akward combinations with various atmas (solo or party play). And if I remember correctly some atmas were also the reason why some cap on various stats got pushed ahead (Fast Cast, Magic Recast?, Crit hit dmg?). Its like a world with totally different rules, which is also refreshing!

[Capuchin]

Actually if SE is following the same pattern, it'll be

You're not wrong, but who says they'll follow the same pattern? Empyrean stuff in particular was so highly self-contained in Abyssea, it's not too crazy to think that it could be similarly self-contained in ilevel/revamped/"2.0" Abyssea.

Still good advice to maybe stash stuff like Legion/VW synth mats though, it's not unreasonable to think they might skyrocket in price if they get reused for upgrades. Worst case, they don't use em and prices stay pretty similar and you can still get rid of the stuff later.

Its like a world with totally different rules, which is also refreshing!

Hell, they could even use those different rules to put a temporary band-aid on some of the glaring issues with mechanics. Give certain jobs more or less (coughSAMcough) utility by limiting their procs, maybe have a lot of mobs healed by light SCs (LOL!), etc... It's not a complete fix to the problem, but at least it buys the devs some more time.

[Sechs]

not like we are doing much outside of adoulin either, with the exeption of hardmode mission battles which are just BCs. This is normal that you stick to the current endgame area and old stuff dies down.

Uh... you do have part of a point at least I guess.
But then again SoA felt part of FFXI to me, on the same level, not a "game within a game".
Surely atmas and temp buffs played a big part in this but I feel there's more to it.

Something about a new, complete expansion pack with new areas and a coherent, articulated story I suppose.

[dasva]

the broken things were exactly what made abyssea fun. You could do some akward combinations with various atmas (solo or party play). And if I remember correctly some atmas were also the reason why some cap on various stats got pushed ahead (Fast Cast, Magic Recast?, Crit hit dmg?). Its like a world with totally different rules, which is also refreshing!

Or in some cases pushed behind like pet dt. I miss having pets that took 0 direct dmg of any kind

[Maurauc]

In other news, an on-screen timer for the Mandy event. Is that the first time they've done something like that, and could we see those sort of timers for events like Delve/Incursion/Abyssea/VW?

[Malithar]

There's been on screen timers before. The most recent is from the last quest for the Search of the Ages series, where you're answering questions in the library. It'd definitely be a nice QoL thing I could see them spread to other areas of the game though.

[Sechs]

There was an online timer for that quest? :O
Must have been hidden with very little font somewhere or behind one of my addons because I totally didn't notice it when I did the quest.

[Ophannus]

I dont think they'd keep it contained in abyssea. It would cause too much congestion. Imagine they required some number of Jewels/Coins/Cards/Stones? Every poppable NM would be spammed because everyone has like 10 jobs and everyone would be cleaving, it would be a mess.

[FaeQueenCory]

You're not wrong, but who says they'll follow the same pattern? Empyrean stuff in particular was so highly self-contained in Abyssea, it's not too crazy to think that it could be similarly self-contained in ilevel/revamped/"2.0" Abyssea.

It's no more "highly self-contained" in Abyssea than the relic sets being "highly self-contained" in Dynamis.
We can assume that it will follow the same mechanic stages for three reasons:
1) They said Relic armors would not use Rem Tales. They then changed their mind and standardized a system to generate more sustainability. (Which has been the biggest "problem" with SoA.)
2) The current vision of Matsui is, ironically, a return to the 75era. At least in terms of gearing paradigms. (He was inspired by how every REM outdate/update-request thread always devolved into "you just want the 75era".) Wherein: A player starts with a base of AF1+1s and AF2+1s and then supplements those with content drops. Only he wants to make it so that instead of the 75era's 1&2 and the 99era's 2&3 (which the set bonuses pushed to favor AF3 over AF2 due to their 5/5 or nothing mechanics... pretty sure the main reason it's taking so long is them deciding how to +1 and how to make the set bonuses not demand 5/5); Matsui wants all three AFs to be equal. (Eg all +1 119).
3) There will be no iLv increase "for quite some time".

People need to stop with the whole "iLv Empy = iLv increase" BS.
Their logic is just dumber than dumb.
It's just as dumb as if everyone started to say that I controlled the Sun because every morning I go out and raise my arm and then the Sun rises.
The empyrean sets came out in pieces as the level cap was raised to 99.
I raise my arm right before the Sun rises.

Neither of these events are causes, dependant, or even related to each other.
They just happened at the same time.


And as to what mats for +1 empyrean sets? VNMs drop mats that are AHable. They also drop the precursors to the Avatar rings. And they're even tied to Abyssea being VNMs.
Though as for them being job or slot mats... I have no idea.
Kinda just want them to make all slots have the same mat: a single colorless soul.
But only after I finish Ochain! (L0Ljk)

[Sechs]

I(Which has been the biggest "problem" with SoA.)

I beg your pardon?

[Ophannus]

In the end , when the dust settles AF/Relic/Empyrean armor wont be anywhere near the best. They should be he bare minimum not top tier. Remember how af/af2 wwrre just macro/idle pieces? That's probably what the eventual fate of reforged will be. For now they're all amazig mostly because compared to current content they're fairly strong. People thought af3 gear would be pretty future proof given their high stats but most have become obsolete or relegated to macro pieces(save for a few notable exceptions that are still good for ws/tping). When they release the post SoA conclusion content i.e the "dyna/limbus/woe"-esque areas (where run/geo af3 will likely come from, then we'll see reforged af3 for the othrr jobs, but i'm not expecting that for at least 2-3 patches after they conclude SoA, so like Feb/march maybe.

Also did they stop doing roadmaps once SoA came out? And i wonder if we'll get a new expansion, hopefully they stop adding new jobs though, just further dilutes and undermines other job roles when they do that shit.

[Damane]

In the end , when the dust settles AF/Relic/Empyrean armor wont be anywhere near the best. They should be he bare minimum not top tier. Remember how af/af2 wwrre just macro/idle pieces? That's probably what the eventual fate of reforged will be. For now they're all amazig mostly because compared to current content they're fairly strong. People thought af3 gear would be pretty future proof given their high stats but most have become obsolete or relegated to macro pieces(save for a few notable exceptions that are still good for ws/tping). When they release the post SoA conclusion content i.e the "dyna/limbus/woe"-esque areas (where run/geo af3 will likely come from, then we'll see reforged af3 for the othrr jobs, but i'm not expecting that for at least 2-3 patches after they conclude SoA, so like Feb/march maybe.

Also did they stop doing roadmaps once SoA came out? And i wonder if we'll get a new expansion, hopefully they stop adding new jobs though, just further dilutes and undermines other job roles when they do that shit.

they stoped roadmaps when matsui took over. I think he even posted, that when he took over, he had to scrap the roadmap of Tanaka and change the direction entirely, but keeping promised stuff in mind for occasional implementation (Atomos, Cait Sith etc.)

[Kyreth]

Could address the glaring availability issues for one or both of HMPs and H-P Bayld. Maybe make H-P Bayld farmable and use it for something in addition to RUN+GEO ergon (say, required for reforging any Empy armor), to motivate people to farm it and get some circulation going.

HP Bayld is already farmable. It's just that it takes fifteen fucking million of them to do anything useful. I've been seeing people farming Colonization Reives, as each one down can cough up a HP Bayld and 10K bayld = 1 HP bayld either way.

[Ophannus]

The only way to increase the availability of hp-bayld is to add other uses. When wkr die down, thats gonna cut deep. Most players get bayld/hp bayld from wkr because the average player doesnt farm reives or do coalition assignments.

If they made af3 require 20-30 HP bayld for the 119 version, suddenly everyone is spamming wkr(guaranteed 1), reives of all kinds and coalition assignments/skirmishes for bayld. Then everyone sitting on bayld will trade it in for hp's and bazaar em for gil. The prices may go up but everyone is sitting on a veritable mountain of bayld so the market may be so flooded that prices remain stable at ~30-40k. I personally hope they add other uses for bayld/hp bayld because it's acquired in DROVES since SoA came out, and aside from 10-400bayld for Ionis or augmenting services or for perma KI's or equipment, bayld is hardly expended. All the bayld equipment is extremely cheap.

I really hope they add ergon weapons for either every job, or each weapon type, or possibly require reforged af3 to use hp bayld, just to get people who are sitting on 800k bayld to turn it over. If SE ever said something along the lines of "we have no forseeable intentions of ever having any other use or purpose for hp bayld outside of ru /geo ergon weapons, then everyone would trade their bayld in. But, because many players think hp bayld may be used later for other things, they'll continue to hoard it.