Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

i think it'd be great if they allowed CP to be gained even in a more casual sense. sure it'd take longer, but people can do it at their own pace

Ehr Spira it kinda depends what you mean with this sentence.
In THEORY you're already able to go at your own pace. You could kill monsters in Ceizak right outside of Adoulin city gates and get, dunno, but I think even the worst job should be able to get at least 10k cp/hr there, with no buffs.
With 990.000 Capacity Points needed to cap a single job and 2,5hrs of play a day you'd be able to cap your job points in less than 400 days!!!! Isn't that fantastic?

More seriously, we need people to be able to do at their own REASONABLE pace. For some jobs the current pace is not reasonable. For the others it's a massive grind that, according to statistics and reality, is reasonable only for a small minority of the player base.

[Sechs]

What a terrible idea on the Gifts. Especially the LAST gift being an additional 5% bonus on cap pts. Why not have made the last gift be something that you actually care about, not something that you needed to get there in the first place. Probably for future expansion on this failed idea.

I don't get this.

1) It's the last CURRENT gifts, there'll be more in the future
2) You haven't capped all the JP categories for a certain job once you reach the 95 upgrades threshold. So it's not like once you're there you cannot benefit of the additional 5%.

The +CP from Gifts might not be perfect, but it sure works better and is less frustrating than being able to find a mantle with the right augments and being forced to equip it, unabling you to use whatever other gear you may have for that slot.

[Sechs]

the superior Idea is still dumb, for any returning player its an auto block path to anything concerning superior gear and will demotivate them instantly. not to mention that finding people for stuff that drops superior gear will be fucked too, because yeah why go get gear you cant even equip?!

I don't get this either.
I don't want to argue because I've voiced long enough my hate for the current implementation of this whole system.
But aside that, I'm not getting your post.

Auto block for any returning player? You're trying to tell me that if someone returned from level 75 or level 90 he didn't have to level up until he reached the cap of level 99?

Why gather gear you cannot equip? I mean... you want to tell me you've never looted/obtained an item for a secondary job that you couldn't equip yet at the time you obtained the item, because you were still levelling the job?


How is this different? As I said to Byrth before, I'm not getting why you people are getting so angry on the *CONCEPT* behind this thing.
It's a different name and a different number, but it's no different from saying we can reach level 120 by getting XP.
What makes it dumb is not the idea, but the fact it's bound behind an anachronistic level of grindness, with a very bad implemented system full of punishing aspects.
THAT is the issue, I really don't see the problem with allowing the level cap to go up through different means, given the impossibility or doing it the normal way.

[Seha]

Why are you surprised? Did you forget people happily leech their jobs in aby so not to deal with an exp grind? Seems consistent to me that they'd complain about this new one.

[Cream Soda]

If I ever come back, MNK onry

[Damane]

I don't get this either.
I don't want to argue because I've voiced long enough my hate for the current implementation of this whole system.
But aside that, I'm not getting your post.

Auto block for any returning player? You're trying to tell me that if someone returned from level 75 or level 90 he didn't have to level up until he reached the cap of level 99?

Why gather gear you cannot equip? I mean... you want to tell me you've never looted/obtained an item for a secondary job that you couldn't equip yet at the time you obtained the item, because you were still levelling the job?


How is this different? As I said to Byrth before, I'm not getting why you people are getting so angry on the *CONCEPT* behind this thing.
It's a different name and a different number, but it's no different from saying we can reach level 120 by getting XP.
What makes it dumb is not the idea, but the fact it's bound behind an anachronistic level of grindness, with a very bad implemented system full of punishing aspects.
THAT is the issue, I really don't see the problem with allowing the level cap to go up through different means, given the impossibility or doing it the normal way.

i meant returning ilvl 119 players, I currently barely play the game, only logged like 3-4 times in the last 4 weeks.
I only log to do some fun stuff with LS members (if they have an event or so), if I am in the mood.
If i really would consider playing more, getting first 60 JP on any of my 5 jobs (or all of them) is a giant cockblock which would make me rather think "well fuck this shit not going back there".

If you really think they will expand the current CP gain ratio you are naive. What they will do is keep it like this, and throw out Superior 1 gear, once that gear is dated and enough time has passed they will introduce superior 2 requiring a HUGE amount of CP and THEN they will expand the current CP gain rate so people can catch up to Superior 1 while the hardcore grinders/botters go to Superior 2, prolly in the same pace as now. This is how i see them implement it. its an artificial gateing of "gear or content", because if some of the gear is really really good and needed for newer content good luck.

EXP/CP grind isnt fun, the times have changed. Imho while the merit KIs are fast to get, its also a tedious point. EXP grinding in general is just dumb.

[arus2001]

Why are you surprised? Did you forget people happily leech their jobs in aby so not to deal with an exp grind? Seems consistent to me that they'd complain about this new one.

It's basically a system that runs counter to one of the game's strengths, the job system and being able to play them all on a single character. XIV has a similar issue, only it manifests through currency caps. The whole taking weeks/months/years to level JPs, the latter seeming more likely for an unpopular job, is just pandering to those masochistic old schoolers that like to believe they think they know what's best for MMOs when it really just presents a wall people won't even want to bother to try and climb.

The idea of wanting people to play a job specifically to make it stronger isn't a bad one. I didn't really like the fact I'd have to play some kind of support role just to hope for decent merit points for something else back in the ToAU days, but that's just kind of how it panned out if I didn't want to be LFG for hours or just have people automatically decline because I wasn't one of the FotM DDs. Rate of acquisition for casual play simply blows. Doing Dynamis and Limbus to reforge your AF and Relic? You're not getting CP in this process even though you're spending about 3 hours, if not more, doing it daily and furthering yourself into endgame. "But it's old and easy content, people don't deserve the CP!" some haughty cockgobbler might declare. I don't care. No amount of grinding rieves or whatever is going to put that gear in my inventory. Plus people would like to have a life outside of XI. Still, filthy, stinking casuals, right? How dare they.

[dasva]

I don't get this.

1) It's the last CURRENT gifts, there'll be more in the future
2) You haven't capped all the JP categories for a certain job once you reach the 95 upgrades threshold. So it's not like once you're there you cannot benefit of the additional 5%.

Assuming they make more how long have we been hearing about 30 per category? And assuming you have a job that has enough JPs worth meriting. I mean the whole point of gifts was to give you a reason to continue to grind out JPs even if yours suck.

[Ihina]

I hope you need 30 job points to go from LV29 to Lv30

[Kanriel]

Assuming they make more how long have we been hearing about 30 per category? And assuming you have a job that has enough JPs worth meriting. I mean the whole point of gifts was to give you a reason to continue to grind out JPs even if yours suck.

Maybe I'm mis-understanding, but aren't gifts automatic buffs once you've acquired x number of JP's on a job? I wasn't under the impression they consume any. So basically they help you continue to grind out, and give an extra incentive to grind out JP's. As well, if you play a job in endgame events you shouldn't have too much trouble getting it to the 55 JP level. I mean that's maxing a single JP category. I don't really get the people QQing that it's not good for people playing multiple jobs, if you're doing that, you're likely already a good bit of the way to 55, right?

[fantasticdan]

I don't really get the people QQing that it's not good for people playing multiple jobs, if you're doing that, you're likely already a good bit of the way to 55, right?

After doing plenty of delve and merit BCs on geo/sch/whm. I have a grand total of 5 JPs between them, so I'm going to say no.

[bungiefan]

Suddenly, job points are no longer nice little bonuses, but actually required.

Terrible decision imo.

But then again, everything SE has done regarding CP and JP have been against their initial vision of what the system should be like, so I can't say I'm surprised.

I saw this this morning and groaned, because I have earned a grand total of 1 JP since they introduced them, and the idea of another block in me trying to get even one good gear set for one job is discouraging. This is not what JP is supposed to be, according to SE.

[Spira]

Ehr Spira it kinda depends what you mean with this sentence.
In THEORY you're already able to go at your own pace. You could kill monsters in Ceizak right outside of Adoulin city gates and get, dunno, but I think even the worst job should be able to get at least 10k cp/hr there, with no buffs.
With 990.000 Capacity Points needed to cap a single job and 2,5hrs of play a day you'd be able to cap your job points in less than 400 days!!!! Isn't that fantastic?

More seriously, we need people to be able to do at their own REASONABLE pace. For some jobs the current pace is not reasonable. For the others it's a massive grind that, according to statistics and reality, is reasonable only for a small minority of the player base.

I think i meant this more in the range of content in which to obtain them.. i guess i could farm CP in ceizak.. but i don't know any other reason why I'd want to. What i generally like about most of the other content in FFXI since Abyssea era is that you can get a multiple things accomplished from doing the same thing..? Like killing NMs, you can get some spare EXP/Cruor. farming exp mobs you can get Cruor, or clear Dom Ops concurrently, or like hope for a chance of an AF chest item.
and for some of the older content, at least you can gain Conquest Points/IS. this is also supplemented with some RoE now.. I think this also contributed to the lack of popularity of WotG exp camps. and these other point systems can be used in a variety of ways so you can accomplish multiple objectives from it.

The problem i see with SoA farming is that its entirely EXP/CP and nothing else. i suppose some might say CAP is that other thing.. but its singular in purpose...

[Ophannus]

I dont know why people are pissed. You only need 90JP spent to max out current gifts. That's slightly under two JP categories maxed. It takes 55 JP to fully upgrade one category to 10/10. Can do that in like like 10 hours of job point farming split into a couple hour session a few nights per week just like you would leveling back pre-abyssea from like 40-60 or something.

[Shenrien]

There are better ways to facilitate content without having your community forced to either bot or only grind points during double exp/cp/jp/eu/na points. I think I'd sooner play Runescape than sit and grind this bs.

[Hitou]

People are pissed because gear lock outs are attached to one of the stupidest systems they've added to the game to date. You have to grind JP, no matter how useless they are on your job, just to equip gear that isn't likely to be handed to you in the first place, per job you play. If any of the "superior" gear is remotely good people are gonna be pissed. Also you can only get 30k+ an hour on some jobs now because there's little to no competition. Once everyone has to do this, per job, there's gonna be a lot more people in the good camps.

[dasva]

Maybe I'm mis-understanding, but aren't gifts automatic buffs once you've acquired x number of JP's on a job? I wasn't under the impression they consume any. So basically they help you continue to grind out, and give an extra incentive to grind out JP's. As well, if you play a job in endgame events you shouldn't have too much trouble getting it to the 55 JP level. I mean that's maxing a single JP category. I don't really get the people QQing that it's not good for people playing multiple jobs, if you're doing that, you're likely already a good bit of the way to 55, right?

I'm not sure your question... it sounds like you are disagreeing with what I said but the words aren't actually disagreeing with what I said. I never said they would be consumed for the bonuses I'm assuming they don't. I was specifically called into question what was the point of the last bonus being cp gain rate for the jobs that only have maybe 1 category really worth doing in the first place especially since iirc the purpose of gifts was a reason to continue to grind just for the automatic bonuses you get from spending jp even if you don't have any jp worth getting themselves.

and yeah outside of a few specific events (like incursion) just playing your job even if it is just 1 job isn't going to get you that far let alone with multiple jobs

[geno3302]

Once everyone has to do this, per job, there's gonna be a lot more people in the good camps.

God forbid those people at the same camp team up and make a party to get faster CP at a better camp.

[NynJa]

God forbid those people at the same camp team up and make a party to get faster CP at a better camp.

Doing stuff together in a MMO? ROFL what kind of drugs are you smoking man?!?

[Sechs]

After doing plenty of delve and merit BCs on geo/sch/whm. I have a grand total of 5 JPs between them, so I'm going to say no.

^ this.
The only event that gives a realistic amount of JPs is Incursion, but once you start doing Megaboss runs (and why shouldn't you? It's the most efficient way to farm for capes) you don't really get that much even from Incursion. I dunno, something like 5k CP every run, with every run being ~20 mins or less?

Assuming they make more how long have we been hearing about 30 per category? And assuming you have a job that has enough JPs worth meriting. I mean the whole point of gifts was to give you a reason to continue to grind out JPs even if yours suck.

That's what we all assumed when they first announed them.
But is that the main reason? I mean, I don't have the answer, I'm just wondering if maybe our assumptions were a bit off.

Judging from the current presentation I'd dare to say that that is a reason but possibly not the main one, certainly not the only one.

I dont know why people are pissed. You only need 90JP spent to max out current gifts. That's slightly under two JP categories maxed. It takes 55 JP to fully upgrade one category to 10/10. Can do that in like like 10 hours of job point farming split into a couple hour session a few nights per week just like you would leveling back pre-abyssea from like 40-60 or something.

I wonder! inorite?
You can't compare 2005's standards to 2015 standards.
Time has passed. People have changed, the game has changed, the standards of gaming have changed.
Just because something was considered acceptable in 2005 doesn't mean it has to be considered the same nowadays, period.

I'm sure people would have whined a lot less with a better, softer, more integrated, less unfriendly implementation fo the JP system.

The problem i see with SoA farming is that its entirely EXP/CP and nothing else. i suppose some might say CAP is that other thing.. but its singular in purpose...

I don't think that's the only problem.

Why don't Assignments give CP?
Why don't reives give CP?
Why don't BCs give CP?
Why the trolling with RoEs giving like 100 CP? (and just a few of them give CPs anyway)
Why the steep requirements for mobs in good camps (WoH, DoH, etc)? Why the lack of good camps? (granted that last patch partially mitigated this problem)

They've been playing too conservative and made the system unfriendly, convoluted, excessively grindy and so far failed to correctly address these core issues by only applying small (welcome!) changes.