Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

New attachs totally coming in february, calling it =/

[Trumpy]

Wow he quoted directly from the post but missed the line just above that answered his question.

I have always wanted to give pup a try but by god i cant stand the short duration of manuevers. Im sure its better now with teh animation lock removed. I would never notice maneuver wear and 5 fights later realize it. So i started putting them in my macros i use like my engaging macros ect... But then Id over heat alot. it just got too frustrating. I dont understand their refusal to increase the durations.

[bungiefan]

Even if they dropped PS2 support, the overall architecture would still need a major overhaul - to the point where recreating it on the XIV system or something would possibly be more comprehensive. Even just porting to DX9 wouldn't necessarily change much unless the game was rewritten to pipe relevant stuff to the GPU or whatnot. It might fix compatibility/performance issues on newer setups though. I know my Surface Pro has oddly terrible performance with it.

IIRC, the low performance on newer graphics chips is because DX8 and 9 support aren't implemented into the GPU hardware anymore, it's emulated. FFXI also isn't multi-core, so you're straining one core to do the emulation and the other stuff the game throws at it.

[NynJa]

IIRC, the low performance on newer graphics chips is because DX8 and 9 support aren't implemented into the GPU hardware anymore, it's emulated. FFXI also isn't multi-core, so you're straining one core to do the emulation and the other stuff the game throws at it.

Is this why my GTX970 is crashing all over the place?

[Isiolia]

IIRC, the low performance on newer graphics chips is because DX8 and 9 support aren't implemented into the GPU hardware anymore, it's emulated. FFXI also isn't multi-core, so you're straining one core to do the emulation and the other stuff the game throws at it.

Far as I know, it's not an issue with graphics hardware itself, but rather with Windows 8/8.1's emulation of pre-DX9 DirectX. Even then, there are games of similar vintage that work great on the hardware, like Unreal Tournament 2004. That's why I think that porting to DX9 would probably alleviate compatibility issues going forward, even if it didn't greatly change the CPU/GPU dynamic off the bat. It's not the hardware, it's how the game is trying to interface to it.

I do wonder how large an undertaking recreating the game in something completely different would be though, since that would likely fix a whole lot more.

[Byrthnoth]

If I understand correctly, you think that the default Dx8->Dx9 wrapper that comes prepackaged in your graphics drivers is poorly optimized for FFXI, so you'd rather have a real Dx8->9 port. That's probably legitimate, considering that different driver version have dramatic effects on FFXI's performance (varying from 60Hz to barely playable).

[Isiolia]

If I understand correctly, you think that the default Dx8->Dx9 wrapper that comes prepackaged in your graphics drivers is poorly optimized for FFXI, so you'd rather have a real Dx8->9 port. That's probably legitimate, considering that different driver version have dramatic effects on FFXI's performance (varying from 60Hz to barely playable).

It could be driver specific (HD Graphics 4000 in the case of the Surface Pro), but hardware reported seems to vary somewhat when looking at more widespread complaints. It's hard to say if the reason my desktop (with a GTX 670) still does well is better drivers from nVidia (well, in terms of DX compatibility, FFXI likes to crash them), or simply a lot more power.

Either way, yeah, I'd like to see a DX upgrade more for compatibility than because I expect it'd automatically improve graphical effects or something.

[Byrthnoth]

It could be driver specific (HD Graphics 4000 in the case of the Surface Pro), but hardware reported seems to vary somewhat when looking at more widespread complaints. It's hard to say if the reason my desktop (with a GTX 670) still does well is better drivers from nVidia (well, in terms of DX compatibility, FFXI likes to crash them), or simply a lot more power.

Either way, yeah, I'd like to see a DX upgrade more for compatibility than because I expect it'd automatically improve graphical effects or something.

After talking to Iryoku and Arcon:

The upgrade from Dx8 to Dx9 would not necessarily be helpful. There would be a small increase in speed from dropping the emulation layer for certain functions, but the bottom line is that SE is probably misusing Dx8 to start with. Things are slow that shouldn't be slow even in Dx8, and they do a lot of stuff in stupid ways. For instance, they process all effects before checking for visibility. So even if someone is using COR rolls behind your camera or around a bend, as long as you're within 30' your computer still has to deal with all those animations (and then decide to ignore them because they aren't visible). They also do skinning (model adjustments based on the skeleton's position) on the CPU instead of the GPU. Refactoring their code and upgrading to Dx9 would be a big improvement. Given a choice of one or the other, though, it's quite possible that refactoring their code is a better choice.

It is possible to add a proxy layer that converts all the Dx8 calls to Dx9, but it's unlikely that any 3P library for that would be as efficient as Microsoft's library that already does exactly the same thing.

Windower is capable of tracing time spent in the Dx function calls, which would let us identify where the inefficiencies are. However, it would be incredibly time consuming/impractical to fix any problems we locate and would likely lead to crashes (like the handful of random CSs that somehow already broke).

SE really just needs to modernize their engine. It's not something that can be reasonably accomplished by the third party community.

[NynJa]

It's hard to say if the reason my desktop (with a GTX 670) still does well is better drivers from nVidia (well, in terms of DX compatibility, FFXI likes to crash them), or simply a lot more power.

What crash are you talking about? I just upgraded a lot of shit in my PC 2 weeks ago, including upgrading my video card, and now I crash in FFXI non stop. I get the same error found here (nvidia kernel has recovered from a crash), and its really annoying because I know its not a faulty video card since I can play COD:AW for 3 hours straight on max settings.

[arus2001]

Can you possibly peg it to something specific going on? Like I recall how confluxes fucked up some people or even the fire line of spells did back in the day. If you could possibly isolated specific cause(s) a DAT swap may serve as workaround.

[NynJa]

Theres literally no specific cause that I've noticed.

Killing Twitherym/Fluturini crashes me (but it can be after an hour of being there, or after 5 minutes). Killing Funguar in Yorcia crashes me (I was trying to isolate those purple diamonds, but that wasnt it). Crashed afking in jeuno overnight. Crashed in Delve also while running between mobs. I've also tried running with just one instance of the game open instead of my usual 2, and still crashed.

[Isiolia]

It is possible to add a proxy layer that converts all the Dx8 calls to Dx9, but it's unlikely that any 3P library for that would be as efficient as Microsoft's library that already does exactly the same thing.

My line of thinking is mostly based on the assertion in the post I linked to above that Windows 8/8.1's DirectX implementation has severe performance issues with certain parts of that process. Some other games (like Unreal games), see that get fixed when moving to a DX9 renderer, making me feel like maybe FFXI would too.

I don't mean to imply Windower or another third party should fix it though. I agree, ideally, SE should modernize the engine.

What crash are you talking about? I just upgraded a lot of shit in my PC 2 weeks ago, including upgrading my video card, and now I crash in FFXI non stop. I get the same error found here (nvidia kernel has recovered from a crash), and its really annoying because I know its not a faulty video card since I can play COD:AW for 3 hours straight on max settings.

I get semi-frequent crashes like you describe. Not constant, but say a few times a week if playing daily. Overnight bazaar crashes are fairly common though, if I do that.
I'm usually running a couple instances of the game, and it'll usually only take down one of them. Game window freezes, little message bubble pops up with the nvidia kernel has recovered thing, etc. It seems especially susceptible to it if I'm doing something odd like moving the camera while logging off a mule.

It's annoying, but generally at a usable level. When I first got the card, FFXI had known issues with Kepler GPUs. Extremely frequent crashes, usually tied to animations (like I could run around fine, but then start casting a spell and crash). It could be worked around by disabling shadows and weather effects. SE added that Graphics Stability option in config to address the issue, and I don't see a difference in stability with effects on or off now. I don't know if it's still necessary, but if you haven't checkboxed that option, you might want to try it.

[NynJa]

I've turned off both weather and shadows, and am using Graphics Stabilization...still crashes

[Bukadan]

Nynja, I had a simile issue recently when I changed to my good pc. Change the resolution of all games to about a 4th of your screens resolution, or default whichever you used. If that doesn't help then try looking for a resolution that's in the middle ground area, and double tap the application bar so it goes full screen.

[Ligray]

No other gear preview from 4gamer's update article besides the the two we already saw, but looks like "after" February update list from last freshly picked is scheduled for February's update.

Mog Garden:
http://www.4gamer.net/games/005/G000...030/TN/015.jpghttp://www.4gamer.net/games/005/G000...030/TN/016.jpg

http://www.4gamer.net/games/005/G000546/20150109030/

[Miroku_Asura]

I think the first image is Purgonorgo Isle?

[dasva]

I think the first image is Purgonorgo Isle?

It does sorta look like it to the point I don't know what else it could be... but there is no grass on the ground in Purgonorgo Isle. In some ways it kinda looks like the garden...

edit: using google fu it looks like another "compartment" is being added onto the mog gardens. Also says 2 monster rearings at once. Looks like it says that's when they will be adding 2 more categories for gifts as well as gift spells

[Toth]

Nice, I forgot this update is adding a new Wanted Shikigami Weapon. I imagine that means a new, sexier Yinyang Robe.

[dasva]

Nice, I forgot this update is adding a new Wanted Shikigami Weapon. I imagine that means a new, sexier Yinyang Robe.

Now with 1-2 refresh depending on unity rank lol

[Maurauc]

So Feb is the next major update. At least Unity NMs are fairly fun to fight.