Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Well yeah but they also said the same thing about jps... clearly no longer the intent. Now now there are things between the 2 extremes lol. My thought is the current gifts were more along the proportions for 3-4 jp categories instead of 2 or the full 6

[arus2001]

Kinda feels like wasted energy guessing what they'll do with JPs. The simple CP% ones could have later bonuses merged in, basically doubling up, to allow more gifts later but at a cheaper value. Or actually farming CP for multiple jobs might reasonable in the future, so the whole "mandatory" thing won't be so bad. At the very least, I would hope things that help "fix" jobs just get added outside the mechanic, but it IS SE we're talking about here, so who knows.

[Sechs]

Gifts were a nice idea but I still wonder which criteria they used to assign them.
Some are really out of place (macc for DDs like Monk? I mean... why?) and there is equal distribution of the number values.
Some are 9, some are 7, some are... I dunno, just random numbers, make the OCD part of me throb.

Like check BRD ones. Some could be useful for ddBRD, but the values are like +3 for some ones. I mean why? Why 3? It's not even a way to make things even, like "we gave a big number to this gift, so to compensate let's make this other one a small one".
I really don't understand. Some gifts and especially some numbers just make no sense to me. Or if there is a sense I really cannot see it.

[Ophannus]

Well there is a pattern. Jobs that are generally more accurate and receive accuracy bonuses(DRG, DNC) get a more potent accuracy gift(9) compared to less accurate dd jobs(like DRK or WAR). Jobs that are psuedo front-line, sometimes-melee, like BRD get a smaller acc boost (PLD, BRD[brd according to SE is a support job but meant to melee sometimes noted by B skill and access to strong dagger ws]). Magic accuracy is granted to melee that usually have added effects on WS, like Shijin Spiral, Tachi Ageha. Mage jobs got m.eva/mdef, while physical based jobs got def or eva(or both). The value of the bonuses is probably related to their relative "tankiness", PLD/WAR got higher def gifts than DRK or DRG. Then there's "job specific" gifts like Dark Magic Skill, Enhancing Skill, Critical Attack +%, etc. For some reason BLU got magic evasion for theirs which is disappointing(but they get a wide range of gifts however).
At any rate, the potency of each gift is commensurate with the job's basic blueprint. Evasive jobs get evasion, heavy jobs get defense, physical jobs get acc, mages get m.acc. Jobs that specialize in one thing, with various natural traits or A+ skill tend to get a higher value than jobs that don't.


Again for emphasis, the playerbase doesn't regard BRD as a "DD" but technically SE didn't envision them as a staff wielding backline job. Their AF is a dagger not a horn or a staff. One of their relic, their mythic and one of their empyreans are daggers and can use all he strongest dagger ws except for the thf specific ones, also they get Fencer, and can use the best ilvl daggers and some pretty good ilvl swords. Given that they're a hybrid support job/support dd(according to SE's concept), they were given an accuracy gift, albeit a much smaller one than a dedicated DD like SAM(which gets 6 due to high dex/hasso/zanshin) and DRG which gets 9(due to being associated with acc bonus traits).

To drive the point home further about SE envisioning BRD as a support job that sometimes was meant to be a support DD, I'll give you this promotional SE concept art of BRD. Tell me if you see any melee weapon there. This is probably why they were given an accuracy gift.

Spoiler: show

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...rd_Artwork.jpg

[FaeQueenCory]

Well yeah but they also said the same thing about jps... clearly no longer the intent. Now now there are things between the 2 extremes lol. My thought is the current gifts were more along the proportions for 3-4 jp categories instead of 2 or the full 6

I don't think that JPs are required (unlike Merits).
Sure they are really nice and good and provide meaningful bonuses (now) but I don't think they're "go grind this out NOW" required like Merits are.

Honestly, I expect the gift-JA/Spells to follow the same path as Su1 armor.
Sure, when we knew nothing but the concept, Superior was a HUGE threat to the "for funsies" requirement (except BLU points) of JPs.
But when it actually hit and we saw the level "superior" that Su1 was... Yeah... Threat passed. And fully disarmed.
So I'm not too worried about the "need" of these spells... Sure they may be nice... But I'm expecting them to be slightly more potent than Superior Armor is... If only because 90% of Su1 gear is shit. (I wanna say... Only the light armor body... Maybe the heavy body was good too? Idr.)
They may turn out useless like Su1... Or they may turn out OP... Or they may turn out to be nifty but not something that's demandable. I'm expecting the lattermost.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the "Su2" Gift was what gave the JA/Spell(s).

[Lyramion]

The 2 Su1 pieces I remember being ok were mage hands for 13/14 cure pot on 119 piece and light armor legs for +dualwield.

[dasva]

I don't think that JPs are required (unlike Merits).
Sure they are really nice and good and provide meaningful bonuses (now) but I don't think they're "go grind this out NOW" required like Merits are.

Not yet but haven't they basically said there idea of it has changed to be more like a new form of leveling? Though right now it largely depends on jobs and if they are go thru with there 30/30 idea. Some jobs the jps are meh that's nice and others are rather game changing or could be if we got to 30

[dasva]

The 2 Su1 pieces I remember being ok were mage hands for 13/14 cure pot on 119 piece and light armor legs for +dualwield.

The thing I remember noticing was there were a few melee pieces with mab which is kinda rare in ilvl stuff right now so great magical ws pieces at the very least I think feet were bis for that

[Sechs]

Between the possibly useful su1 gear there are also 4%fc hands for light armour jobs.

[FaeQueenCory]

I should clarify a bit. What I considered "worthless" Su1 gear wasn't just gear that was suuuuuuuuper bad (<stats than a 109AF and/or lack of meaningful abilities... which is pretty much all the shoes...) but also things that are functionally equivalent to much easier to obtain pieces.
For instance, as Lyra pointed out, the light armor pants have DW, but NIN has easy access to better DW pants in their RFs, and while THF and DNC don't, DW tends to hurt DNC and the surplus of DA/TA pants THF has available generally serve the job better than DW in that slot. So in regards to NIN, worthless, but for THF it could be useful.... but then you have to weigh the cost of the JP grind to other options.
And as for the cure potency gloves... They're basically a marginally inferior Bokwus (more MND, though MND is a miniscule way to increase cure power, but also more Enmity...). So once again, it's massive grind for a return of something that we already have something that does a near identical thing (and/or an easier to obtain better piece).
So not truly "worthless" in the proper sense, but when an easier to get piece that can be used before the JP spent... I don't really call that "good" or "worthwhile." (Also, remember than not everyone has played since the beginning of Adoulin. Always should try to think of the person who starts tomorrow.)

I had mentioned the light armor body cause it has TA... which is always nice. Though Qaaxo is better (DA+TA), in terms of obtaining the item, it's about the same. (assuming buying airlixers vs farming/plasm buying them)

[dasva]

Well to go along with that...for sombra set the legs are also good for bst and I believe in the top builds for blu as well. Body is best for magical dmg for a few of those jobs. Feet are the only mab piece available to bst and only ilvl option for rng. Also hands are the only real fast cast piece for bst.

[Ophannus]

Wonder if spells will be gained automatically or will be an Su2-type gift that lets you cast it after the scroll is used.

[dasva]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo don't give them that idea

[Martel]

Wonder if spells will be gained automatically or will be an Su2-type gift that lets you cast it after the scroll is used.

That is a... painfully plausible mechanic.

Or I suppose they could make SUx a requirement to use the scroll at all.

[Hitou]

Another double CAP campaign right on the heels of the last one. I don't know why they won't just make the base rate double all the time like EXP is.

[The Assman]

Wonder if spells will be gained automatically or will be an Su2-type gift that lets you cast it after the scroll is used.

That is a... painfully plausible mechanic.

Or I suppose they could make SUx a requirement to use the scroll at all.

One of these is what I figured would happen, with the scrolls themselves dropping from Alluvion Yorcia.

[Sechs]

If I were to take a guess I too would support that one (SUx unlocking the use of scrolls).
Yet the way they worded it on the website kinda suggests that the gifts themselves will directly unlock the spells/JApowerups, so I'm kinda leaning for this scenario atm.

[Ophannus]

I mean it's plausible that it could be automatically earned, because it wouldn't be unheard of (merit spells are learned without scrolls), but that was limited by choice of merits spent. On the other hand, JA don't use scrolls and they did say they want to release new JA for melees moving forward through Job Points. Still I imagine the scroll will be 99 and blm or sch can use it but you'd need the gift unlocked to cast it otherwise you'd get the "incorrect job, level or condition necessary to cast that spell" message.

Plus to make a separate gift for the same spell for all nuke jobs is weird. Easier to make a "High Tier Elemental Magic I" gift, then make a single target, -aga, -ara for blm sch rdm geo drk and divvy up the scrolls accordingly rather than divvying up the spells directly through JP.

[Toth]

Boy did they troll us with the New Gifts announcement....Wow....

[Byrthnoth]

Fujito made two posts about the crafting glitch that causes materials to be lost. He says they found the problem, I think.