Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Draylo]

A hardcore player can simply go to Woh gates or any CP farming zone and get a lot done in 1 ~ 2 hours, I thought you were talking about casual players.

[Capuchin]

Cast -aja magic at the Acuex/Leech camp. Use Thunder magic and an MAcc build against the one Ironclad head so he doesn't break chain.

That 510k/hr is with full gifts, a 50% cape, and the doubling campaign.

So realistically, almost nobody farming CP is getting that even in such a well optimized camp because of two major issues:

1) If you have full gifts already, it's not all that helpful to keep farming more CP on that job (even if you wanted to bank points for the future, wouldn't it be more practical for most people to get CP on a job for which they aren't currently at capped gifts?)

2) 50% cape requires a whole lot of luck. Realistically, low end expectation should be a minimum 25-30% from the AH-able capes, higher end would be something between that and 50% (I got a 40% cape on one of my first Incursions, haven't beat it yet despite having literally spent hours of time just opening coffers).

[arus2001]

Hey guys, did you know 200 hours of Dynamis is casual? See you in 14 weeks.

[Draylo]

Are you serious right now?

[dasva]

Well you did say it only takes a few 1-2 hour sessions in dynamis/delve to get 100 jp... so it does kind of sound like you consider 100 or so runs a few which kind of sounds like considering it casual

[Draylo]

No, I didn't say that.

[Hitou]

If this double CP is permanent then it shouldn't be hard for anyone. Not sure if they are going to though, I hope so. You can get CP from doing normal things like Dynamis or Delve and then it only takes a few 1~2hr sessions to get to 100 JP.

And then you went on to say you get 1 JP per dynamis run which would be 100 dynamis runs or 100 days.

I get what you're saying. If the rate is always double then getting CAP from things you might already do, such as dynamis, will be less awful. But really, if you want CAP you're gonna just have to grind, even if you're "casual." Killing things in any adoulin zone, even ceizak, would net you a lot more CAP per hour than doing dynamis etc. Especially since casuals are probably not killing the "DC" mobs in dynamis while farming.

[Malithar]

No, I didn't say that.

OT, I'm in the crowd expecting SU2 it to be shoehorned into 200 or just added as another gift tier on top of what we have. I'm more curious what we'll be looking at stat wise. SU1 was overall pretty meh, but mostly because we already had access to so much that was just as good or better than it. Still offered a few unique or useful pieces. But SU2 coming out with RF Empy, following in the wake of 5/5 sets for every job that causes us all to want to carry 3-5 sets of each to be optimal, I'm leaning towards thinking this gear might be pretty decent.

[Draylo]

I meant CP farming takes only a few 1-2 hour sessions to get 100 JP. I'll edit that post.

[dasva]

OT, I'm in the crowd expecting SU2 it to be shoehorned into 200 or just added as another gift tier on top of what we have. I'm more curious what we'll be looking at stat wise. SU1 was overall pretty meh, but mostly because we already had access to so much that was just as good or better than it. Still offered a few unique or useful pieces. But SU2 coming out with RF Empy, following in the wake of 5/5 sets for every job that causes us all to want to carry 3-5 sets of each to be optimal, I'm leaning towards thinking this gear might be pretty decent.

That's some top tier luls there.

Anyways I'm kind of meh about SU2. Like you said most of it was pretty meh sidegrades but there were a few notable unique or at least semi unique stats that in slots that made them BiS for one thing or another.... then shortly thereafter alluvion armor came out and took a steaming dump on I believe every single one of those pieces that I can think of. For example I think sombra leggings were basically the only mab feet for a lot of jobs even if it was only 7... then taoen came out with 20 and you could get other things like wsdmg too. Sombra tights with 3/4 dual wield... oh wait all taeon can get 5 and acc and att and triple attack.

But I don't think su2 will be overshadowed by RF empy largely because same update and empy was a lot of enhancing certain things ie macro pieces (though some were effectively full time) so wouldn't be too hard to keep them both good. But when alluvion ra'ka comes out idk. And iirc that is supposed to be in june?

P.S. Where'd you go!?! I need your Idris!

[arus2001]

The overall arcing message is you can't consider the optimal conditions (gear, right job(s), if they multi-box and/or have good party-mates, clear camp(s)) the standard for casuals. CP gain rates blow and ultimately run counter to the game's cross-class system, especially now that unique abilities are involved. End of story.

And even if you divorce my jab from Dynamis, 1 JP/hr is still a loooong time for someone who maybe plays 10-15 hours a week. And even if they are running Dynamis, there's a good chance they're killing the lower level mobs in favor of currency/profit, which means no JP at all. Again, the gain rate blows.

[Draylo]

I edited my post as it was worded wrong. I said you get JP from doing all kinds of stuff, so someone who plays casually can get it from all the content that most people do. You can farm JP in a CP group easily at 1~2 hour sessions was my point. Supplemented by the JP you get from random stuff you do. It is the same as it was in the past with merits points and improving your character that way. This is all provided the double CP is made permanent or they do it more consistently. W/o double CP it is a drag I will agree, but with it its fine. Obviously you will probably disagree as you tend to want shit handed to you, what is your ideal for this system? It isn't going away and personally I don't think its that hard to get 100 JP for the gift bonus.

[arus2001]

want shit handed to you,

And this is exactly why I throw shit back. You don't care what I want or what people outside your circle want.

[Sechs]

Not sure about the "Reforged Empy overshadowing SU2" stuff.
A lot of doubts need to be answered.

1) Will Reforged Empy follow the same model as reforged AF and Relic? (i.e. it will have more or less the same "power" as the other 2 reforged sets, and everything will circle around job specific stuff, or rare stats combinations like DEX on legs etc)
2) Will the JS Enhancement be the same as they were on the original empy or will they be updated? (some might become too powerful if updated, others really need to be updated to retain its attractiveness)
3) Will the set bonuses stay the same as the current sets? (if so, it would mean the majority of set bonuses would be just icing on the cake, not something that would make you fulltime 5/5 pieces because of that)

I expect them to be in line with AF and Relic in power (since they share the 119), small adjustments to most (not all) job specific enhancements, no change to most (all?) set bonuses.
Also same JS enhancement bonus for 109 and 119 pieces, with a few exceptions.

As for SU2, it all depends on the model they want to follow. If they still want to make it "119 gear sidegrades that you can buy from AH" then I doubt there will be anything great aside a couple of noticeable pieces maybe. But the SU2 means more effort to be able to equip them, which kinda suggests they *should* be better than SU1 in theory.
I'm hoping at lest for simple recipes and realistic HQ tiers.
Game standards has changed so much that having 0.0001% HQ rates would feel like a remnant of the past, rather than something coherently in line with the rest of the game.
(I can say the same with Guild Points and, partially, crafting skillups in general)

[Trumpy]

Dont think they would actually do it but I would laugh so much if they put SU2 on reforged empy. Its like how for SU1 they said they wanted to make AHable 119 gear that could be easily obtained (for newer players maybe). but yet had that SU1 tag on it requiring a decent amount of play to have earned enough job points, cause they didnt want it to be 119 absolutely free without work. i think alot of players would prolly get delve wins/HQ battle wins before gettin the JPs you need for SU1.

[Trumpy]

After checking again, I can confirm that the accuracy of black magic enfeebles are indeed affected by INT and white magic enfeebles are affected by MND. Because the adjustment we were planning would have made it so that accuracy is affected by INT and potency by MND, we will need to postpone these adjustments.
I once again apologize deeply for providing players with incorrect information. Our original goal with these adjustments was to increase the situations in which enfeebling magic can be used by Red Mages. However, we have received quite a bit of feedback from Black Mages and Scholars saying that this would make things worse for them. If necessary, we are willing to consider cancelling this adjustment altogether, so please continue giving us your feedback.

It is stuff like this that makes me wonder if Tanaka and co just tossed Matsui into the pool without any info on how the game works. And then any changes they make they have to figure it out completely. How could they come to a decision to modify how the enfeeble modifiers work without realizing white magic enfeebs are mind and blacks are ints. It feels like back in the day when Se would give us no information, and we had to figure it all out ourselves. How does TH work? "You will have to look inside and believe whatever your heart tells you. here's a cheese sandwhich +1!"

[Sechs]

More than just Matsui not knowing that or derping for a moment, I'm concerned about nobody else in the team noticing that before his post went actually live.

[errantfish]

I have to agree. Walking back from the earlier comment about how blind potency works was one thing, but the way that post sounds, it seems they have virtually no documentation on those original systems and have to test it all themselves. Having said that, since when do scholars have issues with MND?

[Byrthnoth]

Holy fuck at that Blind comment train. They really have no idea how their game works.

[fantasticdan]

A hardcore player can simply go to Woh gates or any CP farming zone and get a lot done in 1 ~ 2 hours, I thought you were talking about casual players.

I was saying a hardcore player (probably with CP gifts and a better CP cape, in addition to otherwise better gear, etc.) is the one getting one JP per dynamis during a double campaign in your example. As in, it would take you two-hundred hours in dynamis to unlock a single 100JP gift. A casual player would spend even more time for the same result.