Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

am i spoting new weapon models with possible new legendary weapons? (well i doubt new legendary weapons will be introduced, alluvion weapons fooled us once allready!)

Considering their quite manifest hate for Legendary Weapons, considering the current state of the game and their plans for the future it's of course quite unrealistical to expect something of that sort.
Altough I guess maybe I misunderstood you and you were just being sarcastic?

Some of the new models for armor/weapons are nice though, I'm liking them already.


GEO roll is like... increasing enhancing magic duration? Or something? RUN is the expected MEVA+.
There's a third COR thing, looks like a JA though?
They shoul've really given COR a 10mins or even 15mins JA where they allow COR to make the next roll undispellable. Alternatively something like Entrust that allows you to use a third roll every now and then.

[Kainstryder]

Corsair is finally getting 3 rolls.
Ninja's having Utsusemi generate a decent amount of enmity, and Migawari casting speed up.
Warrior is having Berserk/Defender upgrades.

[Sephiran]

am i spoting new weapon models with possible new legendary weapons? (well i doubt new legendary weapons will be introduced, alluvion weapons fooled us once allready!)

Personally, I'd like to see a line of weapon skills acquired through job points. I know, I know:

"But Seph, they won't be used unless they curb-stomp everything else."

Indeed. Which is why SE needs to actually think about the niches WS's fill, rather than blindly applying vertical growth mechanics to them, should they choose to do this.

[Sechs]

Corsair is finally getting 3 rolls.
Ninja's having Utsusemi generate a decent amount of enmity, and Migawari casting speed up.
Warrior is having Berserk/Defender upgrades.

Please feel free to bash me but I don't see how increasing the enmity generated from Utsusemi is going to solve Ninja's tanking problems.
If anything it looks to me it's just gonna break other things currently working.
What about NIN using Innin and casting Utsusemi while DDing? They do NOT want increased enmity from Utsusemi.
What about DDs going /NIN? They probably do NOT want that either.

There is one and only one way to fix tanking issues on a job with two separate roles like Ninja, and that's by enhancing/changing/tweaking how its stances work (Yonin/Innin).
Making them undispellable, no longer decaying over time and giving them different passive traits (like "increased enmity generated from casting ninjutsu spells" to Yonin) would work.
Any other thing applying to Ninja in general and not to Yonin specifically, is going to break something even if it fixes something else.
Bad design choice, imho. Won't change a thing.

[arus2001]

I've always wanted ways for jobs to improve their primary weapon(s)' WS to further make it unique. Like Death Blossom could recover x% of damage done to MP for RDM, Savage Blade would increase enmity generation for a time for PLD, and so on. Being specifically damage oriented probably shouldn't be the goal with the idea, but it might be unavoidable in some cases.

And I wouldn't worry too much about NIN and the Utsu tweak. The spell is already treated differently between main/sub and they could even make the enmity value skill-based so it climbs as the ninja does in level, if not literally having no enmity gain for subs. Top end? I'd expect a little less than Flash for Ni. If you're DDing on the job, it should also ideally mean you have someone tanking. Occasionally pulling hate with the best fucking defensive ability in MMO history isn't gonna be a horribad time.

[Toth]

Love the new armor!

What is PUP getting?

[Damane]

geo roll being enhancing magic + duration is like... so useless ¬.¬. i mean seriously are there any bosses/NMs left that dont have any kind of dispel move or move that overrides buffs where this roll is even needed?!

i can dig run roll m.eva +, cant wait to see what it does when stacked with attunement and vex together....

ninja adjustments are welcome (even for melee)

war adjustments... dont know what to think of those. more def+ on defender and +atk on berserk wont solve the issue warrior has. they need some more drastic changes then that. i really hope the upgrades to berserk and defender arent just more atk+/def+....

[Ligray]

Love the new armor!

What is PUP getting?

Looks like 10 new attachments, drum machine and barrage turbine adjustment and overdrive adjustment.

[Seha]

Omg finally Siren!

Also excited about new cor ja(probably third roll).

[Damane]

Omg finally Siren!

Also excited about new cor ja(probably third roll).

the concept art for siren was allready around pre adoulin release, i wonder if they withheld some adoulin stuff back for rhapsodys . . .

[Sechs]

Love the new armor!

What is PUP getting?

Adjustments to Drum Magazine (removal of the -racc?) and Barrage Turbine (removal of the Wind Maneuver cancel thing when it procs?) and more Attachments. Then some adjustment to Overdrive (lenght of the effect? Because potency was already raised some patches ago)
Couldn't grasp anything else from the 4game article.

Supposingly a new important Job Gift which will unlock new abilities/spells for Dolls, but that's just my idea of course.

[Sechs]

i can dig run roll m.eva +, cant wait to see what it does when stacked with attunement and vex together....

And Fenrir's Favor too! OMG! Gonna be fun lol

ninja adjustments are welcome (even for melee)

Afaik they only announced adjustments about raising enmity generated by utsusemi. It's totally not welcome, imho, for a DD ninja.
For a tanking ninja maybe, but that alone doesn't solve the tanking issues NIN is having these days so... yeah, if it's just that it's a bad adjustment imho.

[Hitou]

I thought moogle and chocobo costumes were terrifying but behemoth suit takes the cake...
I'm definitely going to lockstyle that new GKT assuming it's not to obnoxious to get. Also baby coeurl is adorable.

[The Assman]

Uh, GEO doesn't even have enhancing magic. Maybe it'll include Indicolure spells and other stuff?

[Lyramion]

geo roll being enhancing magic + duration is like... so useless ¬.¬. i mean seriously are there any bosses/NMs left that dont have any kind of dispel move or move that overrides buffs where this roll is even needed?!

Well it might be a 1 trick pony to max embrava duration.


I am reading something about new Su2 equipment in the article, too.

[Isiolia]

Well it might be a 1 trick pony to max embrava duration.

If it's significant enough, like similar to Perpetuance, it might be something to coordinate with buff cycles. Might also be nice for content where the party splits up (or for buffing outside). IE back with NNI, I'd Perpetuance buff something with my alt, then leave her at the lamp.

[dasva]

Please feel free to bash me but I don't see how increasing the enmity generated from Utsusemi is going to solve Ninja's tanking problems.
If anything it looks to me it's just gonna break other things currently working.
What about NIN using Innin and casting Utsusemi while DDing? They do NOT want increased enmity from Utsusemi.
What about DDs going /NIN? They probably do NOT want that either.

There is one and only one way to fix tanking issues on a job with two separate roles like Ninja, and that's by enhancing/changing/tweaking how its stances work (Yonin/Innin).
Making them undispellable, no longer decaying over time and giving them different passive traits (like "increased enmity generated from casting ninjutsu spells" to Yonin) would work.
Any other thing applying to Ninja in general and not to Yonin specifically, is going to break something even if it fixes something else.
Bad design choice, imho. Won't change a thing.

I'm not sure if I understand your reasoning... if it wont change a thing for tanking when using a stance that increases enmity how is it going to screw up not tanking with a ja that lowers it (and also has a lower chance of even casting the spell in the first place)!?!

Anyways sounds more like this is a start. Half of what allows tanks to currently tank is enmity loss mitigation thru dmg mitigation. I expect there reasoning might be for this that ninjas method of doing so has always come at a cost as shadow loss will always lose you hate... just hopefully not as much as the full dmg might of been. But jobs like run or pld can get dmg to next to zero on a lot of normal hits/spells without having to bleed enmity thru shadows. Also since Damage enmity is so low right now assuming they put this up to say idk flash lvl it might actually be possible they could tank with this... that said I thought they didn't want ninja to tank anymore? Didn't the last big spell/ja enmity nerf include ninja spells?

[Hitou]

I don't really remember ninjutsu being great for hate anyway, back in the day people just subbed /drk and spammed hate tools from that. After the level cap raise it was possible to just hold hate with damage like any other melee. Enmity from utsusemi is stupid though, they should have just made a flash-type jutsu and called it a day.

[Sechs]

I'm not sure if I understand your reasoning...

It's simple.
Increasing utsusemi enmity generation might be useful for tanking on NIN, but enmity generation/keeping is not the only issue NIN is currently going through as a tank (altough it's the only one they ackowledged so far).
Supposing it will make a noticeable difference, that will be nice for tanking, but what if you're trying to be a DD? It would become counterproductive.

It's arguable for DDs going /NIN.
Could be useful if you're trying to tank without a real tank...
...but it could be annoying if you're trying to DD and let the tank do his job.

There are some pros, but for each of them there's cons.
And that's because, in my opinion, the only possible way to really fix the double nature of NIN is doing it through the stances which should define and associate with those two roles.
Anything cross-role is going to either be useful, or benefit one part at the cost of the other (and vice-versa).

My reasoning is simply that. Whatever they want to do to Ninja has to be done through Yonin/Innin adjustments (tbf I thnk Innin could be defined as "fine", despite the annoyance of the positioning. It's Yonin that needs some major tweaking)



tl;dr
If you want to fix tanking for NIN, you have to do it through a specific tool used by tanks. Trying to achieve that through a cross-role tool (utsusemi) that's gonna be used by other jobs and by nins NOT trying to tank, might solve an issue (tanking) but create others.

[TummieGaruda]

So based on the trailer we can call trusts in the new zone as well