Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Spira]

wow 7 new sets of 119 gear. and new weapons.. they also mention SP2 gear

based on the trailer it does seem like they're pulling out all the stops. so many new monster models...

[Trigun]

One new furnishing is like an indoor fire pit. The part hanging from the ceiling is connected to it. Boiling a kettle.

[Warusha]

Can anyone confirm what BLM is getting? It looks like apir I|II are being enhanced, but I'm not sure if it's just for BLM or for all jobs with those spells. Also I don't know what "黒魔道士 ・精霊魔法の与ダメ－ジが上昇する

[scaevola]

It's simple.

Supposing it will make a noticeable difference, that will be nice for tanking, but what if you're trying to be a DD? It would become counterproductive.

Then you aren't casting Utsusemi enough for it to matter.

[dasva]

I don't really remember ninjutsu being great for hate anyway, back in the day people just subbed /drk and spammed hate tools from that. After the level cap raise it was possible to just hold hate with damage like any other melee. Enmity from utsusemi is stupid though, they should have just made a flash-type jutsu and called it a day.

Wouldn't call it "great" but spamming ninja spells was on par with most /drk spells save sleep and stun so you could do that instead of the poison, bind etc spam if you didn't have a lot of refresh around. Anyways think this is more of gain hate for what you are already doing... also they said this is a ninja update... there is nothing that says they can't make this only work on ninja

[vivbiibasjiu]

Utsusemi was a good way to get hate until they nerfed it and made you lose enmity with each shadow you lose, many many updates ago

[TummieGaruda]

wow 7 new sets of 119 gear. and new weapons.. they also mention SP2 gear

based on the trailer it does seem like they're pulling out all the stops. so many new monster models...

Have we ever had that much of a spread (7 new sets) in terms of new armor? It will be interesting to see the job combos and hopefully the stats won't be terrible.

[Spira]

new JA "Cascade" increases elemental damage.

aspir 1 and 2 getting adjusted.

[Seha]

Usually 5: healer, nuker, light dd, heavy armour and mnk/sam/pup.

I suppose one of the differentiations could be a pet focused set...dunno abuot the 7th.

[urat]

@urat: have you even played 11 in the last 4 years? because all the things you said dont account at all for today. kinda baffled here

Ah yeah, people still don't cleave to get 99 asap, afk at leves, and bot, right?

Clearly being afk for 7 hours, sometimes multiple times in multiple zones, every day, for a slight chance of claiming a monster that might or might not pop was a much better design, inorite?

No, HNMs were another example of this shitty design.

Also fishing and crafting and anything that could be botted. The very fact there were/is demand for 3rd party machines to play the game for you means that the game is unfun.

Let's take a look at minecraft as a great example of a game that in the A->B process, the -> part is where a lot of the fun is.

How many 3rd party programs have been made to play minecraft for you? None.

The closest to it is mob grinders, which are massive scale projects that farm exp for you, but you have to physically make the set up yourself. This would be the equivalent of writing your own bot for yourself from scratch every time you play ff11, and you write the bot in game.

Outside of that, minecraft doesnt require 3rd party programs to play the game for you because the act playing the game IS the fun part.

The only 3rd party tools that have been made are ones to find diamonds quickly and fly hacks. Fly hacking is the same principle as speed hacking in 11, and a staple hack for every game ever.

As for diamond x ray machines, this shows that players want to get to diamonds faster. This means they find the process of finding diamonds 'unfun', and I agree its essentially the only 'unfun' part of the game, digging your tiny diamond mining shafts to locate diamonds is long, slow, and boring.

Plenty of mods introduced alternative methods to get diamonds for more work but in shorter time, and people generally dont x ray hack there because now finding diamonds is fun.

The point is this.

If you make a process A->B, and people very frequently cheat to go from A to B and skip as much of the -> as they can, that means B holds all the fun and the -> part has little to none, and it feels like a job you are working.

Games like minecraft are fun and sell so damn well because the -> process is the fun part.

The fun parts of dynamis aren't sitting there, endlessly slaughtering mob after mob. Its getting your drop youve been waiting hours for.

The fun part of HNMs isn't the hours and hours of sitting... waiting... semi afk... The fun part is getting your drop you want, and then winning the lot.

The fun part about ffxi isn't its content, its the reward. And thats why people bot and afk and cheat and nin lot and do anything in their power to get the reward while doing as little of the content as possible, because the content is generally just not that much fun.

I have to say, the new stuff has been the funnest, but it still is tops 7/10 for me. Still lacking variety, little to no effort was put into its conception, and its just rehashed shit over and over.

I mean walking through salvage v2 was so boring. Half the rooms are barren and empty. It was clearly just tossed together to satisfy us.

IF you didn't notice it yet, Meeble burrows and delve are actually just the moblin maze mongers event codes rehashed. It follows all the same rules, same generation systems, everything. They took the cookie cutter 'generate the zone and fill with packs of mobs' code and stuck a couple events in it.

Outside of that, its very simple and identicle to every other piece of content.

Every ffxi end game event is one of the following:

A: Big zone full of trash mobs and some nms. Kill trash mobs for just currency, kill the NMs (almost always 5 or 8 of them, sometimes just 3) to make it so the boss pops/can be spawned, then kill the boss. Sometimes you gotta do little tricks here and there to make the NM pop, but its generally just "kill trash -> kill nm x5 or so -> kill the boss"
(Dynamis, Salvage, Einherjar, Limbus, All of Abyssea, MMM, Meeble Burrows, Delve, Skirmish, and now the new event is like this too and I will put money down Escha will be this too)


B: Do some effort to get a pop item, go to a point and pop a boss and kill it to progress.
(BCNMs/ISNMs/Voidwatch/Voidwalkers/Most of WotG/Delve above ground/Sea/Sky/etc)

There are very few events that dont fit one of these two paradigms. SE keeps giving them new looks and adding teensy little changes like "Oh now instead of item drops for currency, you get plasm from kills" or "The four zones are interlinked by their runs, so you can do em in any order and one unlocks stuff in the next"

But its still the same shit. You go ahead and try and convince me WoE isnt just salvage v2: free for all, and salvage wasn't just a rehashed facelifted limbus, and limbus wasn't just a streamlined dynamis.

They're all the same stuff, and we keep acting like this stuff is brand new and cutting edge... it isnt. Tell me, other than the fact they rehashed campaign battle code so we can free for all in walk of echoes, and rehashed voidwatch code so we get our own loot crates instead of freelotting... exactly what did SE do in walk of echoes that seperated it from the other events like dynamis/limbus/salvage?

Im not saying this is bad, but I am just saying I recognize it for what it is. Remaking content with a couple new bells and whistles= keep players subbed.

Furthermore, if you keep constants in your content like this, players can pick it up and learn it quickly because its similiar to previous content. I bet you money when limbus first came out, people said stuff like "this is like dynamis, you'll pick it up fast, just follow the ls leader and you'll see whats up"

It keeps players subbed and money in SEs pockets. I don't fault them that, thats their job.

Thats just the necessary evil of subbed games, the company prioritizes making money on keeping us subbed and addicted over us actually enjoying the game, so the game becomes a treadmill and not a journey. Thats just how it works, and it applies to every subbed MMO that has ever existed ever.

Just go look at the non subbed MMOs that exist, and see how much hacking/cheating/afking/botting/RMTs there are over there.

[dasva]

Ah yeah, people still don't cleave to get 99 asap, afk at leves, and bot, right?

Generally no killing lvl 120 stuff is faster there is also lvling purely from coalition assignments or RoE or GoV or some combo of those, 11 doesn't have leves and every game has bots.

[TummieGaruda]

Usually 5: healer, nuker, light dd, heavy armour and mnk/sam/pup.

I suppose one of the differentiations could be a pet focused set...dunno abuot the 7th.

Maybe a ranged set? Or probably a hybrid like Skadi.

[ccl]

What's wrong with afk xp ? I afk xp in every mmo I play after the first job hit lvl cap lol

[urat]

What's wrong with afk xp ? I afk xp in every mmo I play after the first job hit lvl cap lol

Its a sign the game's exping method was poorly designed, generally means that it has super low replay value and stales very quickly.

FF14 did this a bit better, with a lot of exp coming from questing and dungeons, which give the players variety as they level up, but after 2-3 classes it still starts to stale.

I feel like people need to get with the program and realise levelling and MMOs dont mix the way they have it. Players should start at level 1 but do the end game from level 1 up, and levelling should only slightly increase your strength. Monster hunter, for example, has your character get stronger via the gear they craft, there is no levelling/grinding exp to fight the next tier.

From the third mission on, you are in the 'end game', fighting big monsters and doing the fun part of the game.

In other words, the 'wrong' part of afk exping is the fact you need exp in the first place. Take out the need for exping and design your game so you can do the 'end game' right off the bat, and suddenly players wont feel the need to log in and afk for 12 hours before they are allowed to 'start' the game.




Anywho: Im kinda done with this topic, its off topic and I feel most people would rather chat about the new video


Anyone else notice that it looks like each wall panel can hold two furnishings instead of one? It looks like each panel has a lower and upper half to it.

[TummieGaruda]

Its a sign the game's exping method was poorly designed, generally means that it has super low replay value and stales very quickly.

FF14 did this a bit better, with a lot of exp coming from questing and dungeons, which give the players variety as they level up, but after 2-3 classes it still starts to stale.

For a first job to 75 back in the day, the exp model post exp curve adjustment was ok. What they really needed back then was the level sync system and a permanent exp bonus applied to your character for the first and second time you took a job to 75 via RoE. Resting exp bonuses would have also been nice to have as well.

[dasva]

Anyone else notice that it looks like each wall panel can hold two furnishings instead of one? It looks like each panel has a lower and upper half to it.

They already announced that the upper level can hold a lot more on the wall.

"Wall Layout
Furnishing may be affixed to walls in more spaces at a total of four height levels."

[Kyreth]

Honestly, with RoE/FoV/GoV, the exp rate is tremendous compared to oldschool or even WoTG-era exp gain. Abyssea, as noted was explicitly set up the way it is to let people bypass needing to do exp in any way shape or form. It was a deliberate break to the old system because they thought Abyssea would be "The End"- which is why we ended up with another "exp system" with capacity points. They want us out there, killing monsters for fun and profit. Now, with "The End" looming in the headlights again they're setting it up that a solo player will be able to "party" with a Trust horde instead. Won't be as mind-numbingly stupid as Abyssea cleave/doll PTs, but it'll utterly take the sting out of the stuff needed to exp in a more conventional manner. Even three Trusts is enough to level in most places, and a full five would be enough to take on most content at minimal levels, if not more.

[dasva]

Adjustments to Drum Magazine (removal of the -racc?) and Barrage Turbine (removal of the Wind Maneuver cancel thing when it procs?) and more Attachments. Then some adjustment to Overdrive (lenght of the effect? Because potency was already raised some patches ago)

I'd hope for maybe more speed as shooting is still kind of slow. As far as OD yeah it could definitely be longer, they could also raise the potency of the stat boost... or would be really nice if they changed it to ja haste

Also is no one going to talk about how adorable that baby coeurl is!?!

[vivbiibasjiu]

Overdrive is a joke, they've buffed it like 3 times now and it still barely does anything. They need to increase the duration to astral flow duration at least. 30 seconds makes it not even worth the time to activate it

[Damane]

Usually 5: healer, nuker, light dd, heavy armour and mnk/sam/pup.

I suppose one of the differentiations could be a pet focused set...dunno abuot the 7th.

maybe they go now with:
heavy armor
light dd armor
healer/enhancer armor
nuker/debuffer armor
ranged armor
pet armor with melee stats (pet acc atk etc)
pet armor with mage stats (pet mab m.acc etc) (excluding mages)

I think they have said good bye to the nin/mnk/sam/pup only armor SETS since adoulin release (which in itself was a dumb idea), there are maybe 1-2 pieces that fit that cliche (mostly old drops made through unity or HM battles). They have shifted sam to the more heavy armor DDs and mnk pup nin to the light DDs

tough i doubt they will put out 2 different sets for pet jobs.