Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

Well they changed their mind on marrows and on RME when SoA launched, never say never...

[Fwahm]

They're requiring players to kill every single RoV NM for Aeonic Weapons, and I would not be surprised if upgrading RMEs had a similar step. Killing WoC, Kirin, or the Reisenjima HELM NMs are out of reach for 95% of the fanbase.

[dasva]

Would not shock me if some part of the upgrade required a brew. Seeing as you can't use them for clearing the content for aeonics they must have some valid purpose. >.>; Inb4 killshot trials involving using the ws in question to kill Kouryu, WoC, and Teles x3.

Has that actually been confirmed? Last I saw it was just a very vague statement about brews in the jp text only

As far as afterglowers getting cheated... just how many were made legit to begin with?

[EjinCaitsith]

They're requiring players to kill every single RoV NM for Aeonic Weapons, and I would not be surprised if upgrading RMEs had a similar step. Killing WoC, Kirin, or the Reisenjima HELM NMs are out of reach for 95% of the fanbase.

Haven't tried any of the new HELM NMs yet, but it seems killing all 6 is out of reach of 100% of the playerbase at the moment. There might be some individual kills here and there, but for a group to string together all 6 will probably take 2-3+ months and probably some nerfing/adjustments/buffs to make it realistic(like how Reisen gear raised the bar so much that WoC is now a joke compared to before the update).

[Mojo]

I don't think we have the data to say that at this point. I haven't seen any HELM NM attempts that weren't half hearted and experimental. It took several attempts for us to get WoC and Kirin right with adjustments made to the strategies after every fight. The HELM NMs will likely require a similar amount of iterating.

[Draylo]

I don't see how WoC is a joke when like 90% of the population can't kill it lol.

[Mojo]

It's not a joke so much as a game of chance.

[Mojo]

Also I don't think Reisenjima gear even helped that much/at all. I think I'm still rolling in Amalric body/hands/legs. The only merlinic piece I use is feet (again, my gear is not perfect) yet it's enough to hit 100k with bracelets up.

[TummieGaruda]

If they continue to make 2 paths, they have to continue to support the addition of afterglow later via the magian moogle, which is arcane to navigate as a player nevermind as a programmer.

I can somewhat see why they did this programming wise. My understanding is that the Trial of the Magian progress is stored on the weapon itself which I am amusing it is on the 99 and 119 versions. The offset where this data exists also appears to occupy the same space as the stat expansion they are planing for the weapons. So in order to move forward with the stat expansion on these weapons, they need to wipe the Magian progress clean. Seems a bit odd though because they could simply base what weapon you have on the item ID. As far a resources are concerned, if there are multiple augments possible then you have to think about all of the weapons they'd have to program the augments for across R/M/E. If there were 4 different augments per weapon, doing a split weapon system with Afterglow vs NQ would produce 400 possibilities they'd have to code. I have a private server that I am working on and trust me, programming augments are a pain in the ass due to the amount of time.

[EjinCaitsith]

I don't see how WoC is a joke when like 90% of the population can't kill it lol.

I think many would be surprised how easy WoC actually is. Bene is the only "fuck you" thing it can do that may end your run. It's as easy as setting up a bolster order and making darkness skillchain 10 times with 3-4 BLM cycling Death. Not exactly difficult to do. Even gearing and getting 1200+ JP on BLM is significantly easier to do now with current CP campaign and how easy it is to farm Merlinic(minus arguably body for some).

Also I don't think Reisenjima gear even helped that much/at all. I think I'm still rolling in Amalric body/hands/legs. The only merlinic piece I use is feet (again, my gear is not perfect) yet it's enough to hit 100k with bracelets up.

99K was not common post-bracelets pre-update for WoC(just look at the JP clear videos or my 10% bene video), and I was using 4/5 Amalric +1. Post update, it's like you said, 99K is extremely easy to hit and doesn't require any Amalric +1, which I'd say is a combination of the new Job Points/Gifts and Merlinic. For example, pre-update it wasn't possible to cap MBD on Death, infact, you'd be 19% short if you used pixie +1 and archeon ring, but now with Merlinic it's very easy to cap MBD and use those 2 items.

I don't think we have the data to say that at this point. I haven't seen any HELM NM attempts that weren't half hearted and experimental. It took several attempts for us to get WoC and Kirin right with adjustments made to the strategies after every fight. The HELM NMs will likely require a similar amount of iterating.

I don't disagree, I mean, maybe when we actually try it, it won't be that hard. Though, I'd think if it was as easy as throwing BLM at it or something similar, we'd see many more clears at this point and probably some Aeonics completed from the hardcore JP side.

[Fwahm]

How much harder is WoC without one or more Idrises, though?

[Lyramion]

WoC is all a gamble. The slower you kill, the more risk you have for a "fuck you" combination of Benes or SV with Wynavs up. Damagewise he is easily killable in 30 minutes.

[EjinCaitsith]

How much harder is WoC without one or more Idrises, though?

We killed it last night with 1, actually. All they did was Focus+Lang until it was their turn to bolster(malaise+focus). If you can make up the lost macc+/meva- from another source, like from RDM or COR, I see no reason why any Idris are needed at all. Dunna's bolster malaise is easily enough to cap a decently geared BLM's Death at 99K post-bracelets.

WoC is all a gamble. The slower you kill, the more risk you have for a "fuck you" combination of Benes or SV with Wynavs up. Damagewise he is easily killable in 30 minutes.

I guess you can argue the "difficult" part is optimizing your group to waste as little time as possible. It comes down to luck, yeah, but as long as you can do those 10 SC in roughly 10min or less, you're going to win over 60% of the time.

[Mojo]

It took a while for anybody to clear WoC and the fight is essentially BLM throwing a bunch of BLM at it. You definitely didn't need amalric +1 to get 99k on WoC with bracelets, just correct fast cast/idle sets to not gimp your MP. Snoll Cheer existed too although I don't even think that is was necessary either.

[Draylo]

Huh? From what I recall, Snoll cheer was an error in the description and doesn't give what it says.

[Lyramion]

Yap snoll cheer said MP+16% but was more like MP+16.

[Malithar]

Hope the trial isn't too crazy to upgrade Ergons, I would of been working on Afterglow for Idris for the past year and a half if it existed.

[Mojo]

oh god.... so much time wasted (currently level 5 monster rearing)

[Petitssk]

I'm not sure how I feel about the previous announcement on the game's impending termination now that it seems like it's been, at the very least, postponed, since there were credits with my name in them and it doesn't really get more final than that.

Still, I'm happy nonetheless; going to be enjoying the Christmas-theme in Jeuno and do all kinds of stuff once my holidays start and see where the game goes from here. Definitely great news, really.

[Tidis]

I don't like how they worded it for REM upgrades, those who already have afterglow will have an easy upgrade while those without will have "quite a challenge ahead of them". We're talking about very significant weapon upgrades here, both damage and accuracy, I understand the need to compensate for giving everyone free afterglow on upgrade but my concern is that upgraded REM will for a long time be limited to an extreme minority of the player base.