Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Ramzii]

i'm sure the people waiting hours for you to wipe and fuck off didn't miss it though

[Ihina]

Watching people wipe is a good portion of the fun in this game.

[steellord]

i'm sure the people waiting hours for you to wipe and fuck off didn't miss it though

it's hardly just that but things like 2 blm kiting apollyon back in the day, or several doing so on KB/ks99/jailers. Kiting has totally fallen away as a viable strat, even where it wouldn't take noticeably longer than melee

[arus2001]

I never really took to kiting, or its evil cousion, pinning, as it was pretty rare they programmed mobs to counter it. Advantageous for the player, sure, but pretty fucking lame. Yeah, this eventually led to stuff like arena boundaries, rage timers, maximum spawn times, and all that jazz, but never once seeing a mob be all like, "Fuck you, imma turtle!" and stop chasing the player, instead upping defenses to negate attacks until the player comes back in range or whip out some massive ranged AoE since they couldn't melee attack for X time was just... sloppy? But maybe that's just me being an asshole in my own way.

[Draylo]

it's hardly just that but things like 2 blm kiting apollyon back in the day, or several doing so on KB/ks99/jailers. Kiting has totally fallen away as a viable strat, even where it wouldn't take noticeably longer than melee

Not totally true, I've had mishaps in Escha where I had to gravity/bind kite stuff until unweak or to finish it off. There are a bunch of spots like that where you can kite things, like #6 in Zita'h. Also they are increasing the fight range once again next update, except for #9 in Reisenjima. You can also kite things in Delve and other battlefields, where SCH do that to solo stuff regularly to reduce the dmg they take.

[Isiolia]

it's hardly just that but things like 2 blm kiting apollyon back in the day, or several doing so on KB/ks99/jailers. Kiting has totally fallen away as a viable strat, even where it wouldn't take noticeably longer than melee

Is it that it isn't viable, or simply that it's usually unnecessary? Can still see it pop up for things like SCH solos (some of the T2/T3 ones here)...but more often having a tank/tank trust hold it works is all.

[dasva]

Is it that it isn't viable, or simply that it's usually unnecessary? Can still see it pop up for things like SCH solos (some of the T2/T3 ones here)...but more often having a tank/tank trust hold it works is all.

I think it's a mix of things... yes you can sorta still pin/kite at the right spots but less able to have free run or get to really crazy pin spots. Which means everything happens a little faster from killing mob to it coming to hit you (like doubt I can rng kite/pin escha nms like I did for vnms back in the day. Would time out for 1 and can't lure mobs to the perfect spot they can't kill me at). But if you are staying in a smallish area to begin with and have the danger that goes with it might as well use a tank trust to keep in place for the small time it takes you to unload on the mob. Also compare to before you aren't really waiting on refresh or aspir timers or whatever to get your next nuke off... or killing with dots. Our ability to unleash magic dmg has gone up making full kites rather time inefficient

[Ramzii]

Kiting is no longer necessary because August/Gessho/Apururu etc exist. If trusts weren't a thing you'd probably need to kite things you were going to do with a tank. I've kited a few vagary/delve zones before when trusts went down, but it's just really annoying multiboxing. I'm sure it'd be more fun if I wasn't multiboxing.

[Spira]

Watching people wipe is a good portion of the fun in this game.

And then taking the free NM for yourself at like half HP. Win XD

I never really took to kiting, or its evil cousion, pinning, as it was pretty rare they programmed mobs to counter it. Advantageous for the player, sure, but pretty fucking lame. Yeah, this eventually led to stuff like arena boundaries, rage timers, maximum spawn times, and all that jazz, but never once seeing a mob be all like, "Fuck you, imma turtle!" and stop chasing the player, instead upping defenses to negate attacks until the player comes back in range or whip out some massive ranged AoE since they couldn't melee attack for X time was just... sloppy? But maybe that's just me being an asshole in my own way.

It isn't just pure kiting/pinning but also alternate strategies like SMN/BST pet kiting, etc.

Some NMs do just go back to spawn point if u wander too far or drop off the hate list too. I think the turtling/regen is just as bad as the rage timers/battlefield thing. Those were actual mechanics for certain NMs,if you remember Aspid, Hydra.. And present more potential for griefing than anything else I think

[arus2001]

Wasn't saying to throw massive regen on stuff, but to basically just wipe DoTs and take shit damage until people are back within like 10 yalms for 10 seconds or so. Maybe I'm weird, but the mobs having a means to fight back makes things more interesting (as well as upping potential need for tanks). I'd also like to think not all prey were mindless beasts. Some demon NM would or should be more cunning than that. I guess it's just me extending the concept of role-playing to monsters, too, what with some kind of establishment with rules, personality, history, etc.. I know that aspect of MMOs frequently gets lost to the stat crunch, but I can't help but feel like it the best counterplay to mathematical absolutes.

[vivbiibasjiu]

I feel like the movement speed update really hurt kiting. The range for casting on an enemy is the same but now they catch up to you twice as fast. Without cheating, once gravity/bind wear due to animation/casting lock even if you're gear blinking and casting instantly enemies catch up to you a lot faster than before, by the time you can move again they're already there and can hit you again. And don't even think of trying to kite an enemy with innate high movement speed (tigers, etc.)

[Hoshiku]

Did they increase the movement speed of monsters? I thought that was a player only buff.

[Byrthnoth]

Nope! They buffed both.

Also yeah, now it takes monsters less time to run your max casting distance. It also takes you less time to run outside their max casting distance.

[Fwahm]

Kiting monsters like Tigers is actually easier than before, because they were already at the normal speed cap (+100% of pre-update standard movement speed), and were thus unaffected by the update, so players are faster than we were before in comparison.

[dasva]

Did they increase the movement speed of monsters? I thought that was a player only buff.

Psh like they'd let us normally run faster than the majority of mobs without gear or anything

[vivbiibasjiu]

Kiting monsters like Tigers is actually easier than before, because they were already at the normal speed cap (+100% of pre-update standard movement speed), and were thus unaffected by the update, so players are faster than we were before in comparison.

Pretty sure that's not true, you could always outrun tigers with flee. They had like 50% higher movement speed but they were definitely not flee speed

[Fwahm]

Tigers have always kept up with me completely fine using flee, same with Raptors and Wyverns.

[vivbiibasjiu]

They don't keep up, you outrun them and they catch up to you quickly when you stop. You must have been accidentally running slower with autorun or something or remembering wrong because they definitely did not have auto-flee

[Hitou]

I think the only mob that moves at actual flee speed is Yovra.

[The Assman]

And that vampyr NM in Abyssea.