Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Bigsyke]

Would be interesting to see how Dunna changes with augments, it is already a superb bell (not like there is much of an option)

[FaeQueenCory]

Yeah it's just augments...
BUT! That's great news for nonErgon RUNs and all GEOs!
So many possibilities with those two!

As for the others....
meh.
Pretty much the only ones that are still in use are Gridarvor, derpander... and "Priwen". (I use the air bunnies cause everything is Aegis or bust, making Ochain/Priwen/Shrivatsa kinda moot.)
I can't really see anything else other than those 5 getting anything that will make them viable for anything in stead of what else there is. (Though I guess this more helps returning players since these are the easiest 119s to get from nothing but gil.)
And Sandung wasn't bad... there's just better offhand options. So maybe that could get... something. (5% WSdmg is still good...)


EDIT: I just thought of something.
They're adjusting the current dats for the Aeonic weapons, not giving a +1 version of them... what if... they're giving them and Ergon "121"s Afterglow?
That'd be nice.

[The Assman]

Why do I get the feeling PUP is getting nerfed to BST range?

[Kincard]

They've already straight-up told us that Ergons 121 won't be getting Afterglow, so I doubt Aeonics will be getting it either.

Oboro weapon augments might be interesting. Depending on the augments one handers might get something useful for offhand, but I doubt the two hander weapons will be in any way useful regardless of what they get augmented with (aside from Aettir). Curious what Terpander will be getting without it being redundant with Blurred +1.

[wipers]

Update to melee and ranged. This could be good or bad giving it is SE I'm leaning towards bad...

[scaevola]

Update to melee and ranged. This could be good or bad giving it is SE I'm leaning towards bad...

It'll probably be good. SE has a loooooong history of wildly overbuffing when they tinker with the underlying math of combat rather than individual abilities.

[Kincard]

I'm sure they're aware of how everyone's using BLMs for everything so it'll probably be a buff. Unless they go way overboard I don't think it will encourage people to start using melee again, though.

[scaevola]

I don't think it will either, but a melee buff doesn't have to raise DDs to the level of a GEO-buffed magic burst to make them dramatically more powerful.

In the end, people just like playing melees. If a buff allows them to accomplish more on their melees than they would otherwise, that change will be welcome even if magic bursts remain more efficient.

[Ramzii]

unless they drastically increase our native accuracy and magic evasion, i doubt the adjustment is gonna make BLM any less attractive. also i'm not sure if they're buffing oboro weapons, it could be that the next stage of RME buffs are again done through oboro and for whatever reason it uses arcane glyptics? idk SE hardly is ever logical

[Treize Kordero]

I wonder if they are gonna change the formula or just mess around with the STR/ATK and DEX/ACC ratios? Maybe return of the 1:1 for 2handers? LOL watch ranged get 1:2.. then again would that even be enough?

[FaeQueenCory]

They've already straight-up told us that Ergons 121 won't be getting Afterglow, so I doubt Aeonics will be getting it either.

Oboro weapon augments might be interesting. Depending on the augments one handers might get something useful for offhand, but I doubt the two hander weapons will be in any way useful regardless of what they get augmented with (aside from Aettir). Curious what Terpander will be getting without it being redundant with Blurred +1.

Yeah, I know that.

BUT...

This is after the hubbub of "that's 100% BS" was raised on the OF.
SO.... maybe they've listened and decided to, again, go above and beyond what was bitched about and add afterglow to Ergons and Aeonics. (Wouldn't be the first time Matsui did that... I mean, that's why we have the RF1~3s. And Ergon is suuuuuper easy to do too, just copypaste mythic AG. Sure it sucks to be forced to go the "hard" route... But getting the aura would be nice.)
Aeonic would be a little more resources (as in more than a slaveintern with a keyboard), Srivatsa could be anything. I'd do -enemy crit hit rate... or maybe annuls damage... but as for the actual weapons... Store TP? TP bonus? There's too many possibilities that would make sense... and not duplicate Relic's +acc or Empy's +crit rate. (And Shiva dishing out TP bonus as a buff means less new coding and more copypaste.)

And I'm calling it right now.
Escha stuff drops "+1" boulders/ploutons/beitetsus and you need 3,000/30,000 of them for the "121"s... 300 or so for AG variants.
And either 1/roll for augments or 100 for a set augment set on the ghetto!mythics.

Or maybe they'll be crazy and add them to actual relevant content. Though they didn't do that with the 119 upgrade, so I'm betting it's just Escha stuff or Escha/UCNM/MBCNM/SR/Vagary.

[dasva]

The ergon thing is kind of BS. I honestly don't care if it glows or not. But not gaining glow AND not getting the easier upgrade path is kind of bs especially given the fact it's easier to make an afterglow relic than a plain old ergon.

[dasva]

Why do I get the feeling PUP is getting nerfed to BST range?

You shut your whore mouth!!! Seriously though how would that even work. Repairs/ maintence distance isn't that hot to begin with (think it's around old BP range) and maneuvers are self buffs. Cooldown is also basically a self burden lowerer/overload remover. Not sure about the other jas but those are niche uses. I guess they might be mad about the insane hate dumping? Also seems weird considering the frame designs. Ah fuck lets make the range of all spells and jas melee range

[wipers]

Don't get me started on glowing vs non glowing people. Might be the dumbest thing in the entire game...and that includes all the various mandy moogle suit etc.

[scaevola]

Or maybe they'll be crazy and add them to actual relevant content. Though they didn't do that with the 119 upgrade, so I'm betting it's just Escha stuff or Escha/UCNM/MBCNM/SR/Vagary.

You need a clear of Delve or a Normal-tier merit battlefield to upgrade, and the stones dropped from the same. That was absolutely endgame content when 119 RMEs were introduced.

[FaeQueenCory]

You need a clear of Delve or a Normal-tier merit battlefield to upgrade, and the stones dropped from the same. That was absolutely endgame content when 119 RMEs were introduced.

Yes. It is end game.

However, it's 100% irrelevant to Relics, Empyrean or Mythic weapons.
Relevant content for those would be:

Relic: Dynamis
Empyrean: Abyssea+VW
Mythic: Nyzule, Salvage, and Einherjar

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned relevant content for where the stones would drop from.
The win requirement was not what I was talking about.

[arus2001]

Will be curious what they do to Oboro's BLU sword since I was using that and the WKR sword with DA when I was playing. Just couldn't get other drops from the content I could solo, nevermind finding help for other shit the hardcore were done with months prior.

Anyway, I'm wondering if SE completely grasps the melee situation. We went over it sorta recently here with WTF enemy TP moves and other shitty mechanics. While I'm with others in erring toward a buff given the BLM meta, I'm wondering if they're going to further visit the AGI/TP/SB relationship. Assuming, of course, they haven't just given their late-game NMs some form of regain, anyway.

[Byrthnoth]

Their comprehensive list and informal list up top both say:

Adjust melee and ranged damage calculations

Here are the various factors of the damage calculation system and how they'd be affected by buffs:
Ratio cap - Increasing it would favor jobs with Attack+ or Def- WSs (Mandalic Stab, GKT WSs, Camlann's Torment, etc.) and jobs with Crit WSs, but the effect would probably be pretty minor because Def down debuffs are still likely to cap you on everything.
Level correction - They already destroyed this coming in to Escha / Adoulin, I think?
pDIF equations - Depending on how they change pDIF, it could benefit high or low attack jobs. If they just raise the cap, it benefits high attack jobs.
fSTR equations - Probably wouldn't matter almost regardless what they do. If they make it dramatically easier to get fSTR and raise the caps, it would help dual wield jobs.
Critical hit implementation - SE could choose to weight critical hit damage more heavily, but it seems unlikely given that our best melee DDs at the moment all abuse critical hits.
New Factor - They could add some new pieces to the equation

None of these changes would really make melee more viable in current content for all the reasons we discussed earlier.

Wishlist for me would be:
* Nerf TP/hit a bit for jobs below 180 delay and approximately halve it for delays between 180 and 600. Leave /ra TP/hit alone
* Substantially buff 2H and Ranged physical WSs (approximately double)
* Buff Club/Axe melee WSs a little
* Increase Ratio cap to 3.25 for melee and 4 for ranged
* Cap pDIF at 4 for melee instead of 3 and 5 instead of 3 for for ranged
* Add another plateau at a pDIF value of 3 for melee and ranged damage and make the appropriate adjustments
* Change implementation of ranged crits to be more similar to melee crits (not just damage +25%)
* Reduce the delay after one WS before another can skillchain to 1 second

Most of the above adjustments are focused on integrating the skillchain mechanic more thoroughly. We need to reduce WS frequency if we want multiple-melee parties to come back, because the skillchain mechanic is central to lowman melee strategies. It really does not scale well when you add more melee, and thus discourages using melee as a damage source unless a single melee can kill the monster. Also, the current 2H position of being a high-WS frequency, low-WS damage is a substantial disadvantage given skillchains, so it needs to be fixed. The pDIF/Ratio adjustments are unrelated to skillchains. They would increase melee damage 33-50% in high buff situations, but wouldn't affect it much/at all when soloing. Ranged damage always feels like it can use a buff.

[scaevola]

Yes. It is end game.

However, it's 100% irrelevant to Relics, Empyrean or Mythic weapons.
Relevant content for those would be:

Relic: Dynamis
Empyrean: Abyssea+VW
Mythic: Nyzule, Salvage, and Einherjar

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned relevant content for where the stones would drop from.
The win requirement was not what I was talking about.

Ah, well, then we're operating under different definitions of "relevant", though I wonder how many people want to spend EVEN MORE time dithering about in level 75 content.

[Damane]

Yes. It is end game.

However, it's 100% irrelevant to Relics, Empyrean or Mythic weapons.
Relevant content for those would be:

Relic: Dynamis
Empyrean: Abyssea+VW
Mythic: Nyzule, Salvage, and Einherjar

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned relevant content for where the stones would drop from.
The win requirement was not what I was talking about.

the relevant ball droped with the ilvl 119 upgrade. They could basicly implement anything now for the next upgrade stage and my bet is with geas fete and/or Job points