Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

I feel ranged could use with either completely abolishing the static delay after aiming or at the very least make it effected by snapshot and not interfere with ja/ws... also possibly letting mythic AM3 and double/triple shot work on ws/barrage would nice.

Also not splitting up what the magical ws is based on would be splendid. Having the macc based on mainhand and dmg on ranged or for that matter racc on ranged but macc on mainhand for ws performed with the same weapon is just all kinds of pants on head

[Sechs]

I'm wondering if they're going to further visit the AGI/TP/SB relationship.

In my opinion that core mechanic of the game is one of the reasons why the game, throughout these 13+ years, has often been in a situation where an alliance leader would be forced to NOT bring more than X melees (too much TP spam) and many other issues derived from that.
In hindsight I think it's pretty stupid to program a game where NMs and monster in general are gonna do random special moves based on how much and how often they get hit.
It's irrelevant for normal mobs maybe, but at least for NMs they should've made TP moves used fixed by making them gain no TP from damage received, but increasing accordingly the TP gained from the monster's landed hits and from variable values of regain. (which the majority of NMs have regardless anyway)

But this will never change. They could increase the caps on subtleblow/AGI and that stuff, it would be beneficial, but given the current state melees are in, I'm not sure changing this alone would make any noticeable difference.
I think the first priority should be easining up the accuracy requirements for the high-end targets, and then nerf some moves, especially mobs that have constant dispelga mechanics. (well GEO can counteract that, but it's a kick in the balls for all other buffs, including selfbuffs).
When you pair such mechanics with mobs that require 2000000 buffs to be able to even just HIT the target, then of course you ain't gonna use Melees in that fight...

[Sechs]

and/or Job points

The fact they increased the cap on JPs to 500 for no appearent reason made me think they had some plans for that in the future. I think it's also positive in the long run because it keeps people interested in joining CP pts.
So yeah, I think making so you need JPs at some stage for something (whatever it is, but RME upgrades could be that one thing) could be something highly beneficial for the game's ergonomy.

[dasva]

Tp feed wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't design it to favor monsters so much.

Like one 99.9% of the time if using melees the mob will get hit more than it gets hit which alone should give it superior tp gain thru dmg. But on top of that the amount per hit is all bonkers in comparison. Like when we hit mobs we give them significantly more base tp than we ourselves get from hitting them. Meanwhile when they hit us we get about 1/3 of what they get. This basically ensures that even with only 1 melee on a mob they will be able to use a tp move more often than we can without serious amounts of subtle blow/stp and with more than 1 well yeah good luck. And with dps requirements being such we need melees ws every couple of seconds (for melee strats) this ensures that the mob will as well.

[Sechs]

I know dasva but *personally* I still find it a pretty stupid core mechanics to build a game upon.
It doesn't matter for random monsters but NMs should be based around something more predictable, instead of something that promotes having the less melees possible because the more you bring the harder the NM gets.
If that was their primitive way of creating a concept similar to "scaling difficulty" then I think they failed.
The amount of special moves a NM does shouldn't be dependant in any way to the amount of hits they receive (or number of players hitting it).
I'm not saying it should be extremely predictable either, just that if they wanted to add a bit of random spice then they should and could have used a different approach, the TP one is stupid imho.
Been saying this since 2005.

[dasva]

Could add a larger cooldown timer. Like has to have tp AND have to have been at least 10 seconds or something. Hell for niftiness make that timer effected by haste/slow. Bring back elegies!

[Bigsyke]

I don't know.

Part of me is thinking merging the magic/physical buffs/debuffs along with adjustments to TP moves would allow people to bring a mixture of jobs to things.

[Kincard]

I don't really like TP Feed the way it currently exists in the game either, but personally I really like the idea behind it...it encourages you to think about more than just maxing out your damage and that's one of the things I really like about XI- lots of different stats that matter, as opposed to a lot of other MMOs (or, hell, lots of modern RPGs period) where you just dump almost everything into one primary stat and call it a day. The problem is that currently the only times people consider subtle blow or deliberately slowing down their damage output is in solo/low-man content (for example some people slow down their damage on Dawn II so he doesn't spam the shit out of all his moves)

[Sechs]

"lots of different stats that matter" vs "dump almost everything into one primary stat and call it a day" is something I can relate to, I like this approach as well, but this doesn't necessarily have to do with a core-mechanic that makes so the mroe people you bring the harder the fight gets.
It is like this nowadays post-scaling (given how simple/bad FFXI's scaling system is) but looking at a bigger picture it has arguably always been that way if you think about even old 75 era fights where the majority of them were incredibly easier if done by the smallest possible group of competent people vs a full alliance. (less TP spam, more drops for less people).
Imho this is bad.
If you want to promote the "lots of different stats that matter" or in other words "lots of tactical approaches/choices you can do" it's fine and I think it's an awesome game design approach (altough very hard to handle and balance), but again I think doing this with the TP-gain mechanic on NMs has always been a very bad idea in its very essence, for the practical and unavoidable consequences it brings.

Personally I've always hated this single core-mechanic in FFXI. It could be fine if it was a few specific fights here and there to create some variation, but not as an across-the-board core mechanic.




On a side note:
OMG WARDROBE2! /drool
April patch needs to come sooner ><
I'm glad they are trying to make so Safe/Safe2/Storage/Locker will not be prioritized to quicken the load time of inventory, wardrobe, wardrobe2, sack and satchel. Honestly I think it would be an acceptable compromise to not have Safe/Safe2/Storage/Locker accessible at all (even in view-only mode as it has been so far) when you're out of your mog house.
I don't know what other players think, but if that could bring a noticeable increase in loading times between zones, I think it would be quite an acceptable compromise.

[Damane]

i dont think melee dmg as it is needs a buff, as other people pointed out, but rather the party-dynamic between jobs is skewed due to mob behaviour.
I would suggest the following adjustments:

BRD:
- Make Songs undispellable
- Make Songs instantly drop as soon as BRD leaves the PT or dies

COR:
- Make Rolls undispellable
- Make rolls instantly drop as soon as the COR leaves the PT or dies

Geo:
- Entrust scalable with Geomancy+

Core Mechanic:
- Uncap Subtle blow and adjust the Subtle blow trait/add more subtle blow where needed

Melee:
- Balancing inbetween melees by adjustin WSs/other stuff

Nerf:
- SCHs can only do Level 1 skillchains
- Bursting on Level 1 skillchains results in lower Magic Burst dmg and Significantly enhanced enmity gain.
- Skillchains created with the same weapontype get after the first skillchain step no further bonus on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg (Slashing Blunt Piercing Ranged)

Buff:
- (multistep) Skillchains recieve a larger buff on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg if there are multiple different weapontypes included: as in Blunt Slashing Piercing Ranged

[wipers]

i dont think melee dmg as it is needs a buff, as other people pointed out, but rather the party-dynamic between jobs is skewed due to mob behaviour.
I would suggest the following adjustments:

BRD:
- Make Songs undispellable
- Make Songs instantly drop as soon as BRD leaves the PT or dies

COR:
- Make Rolls undispellable
- Make rolls instantly drop as soon as the COR leaves the PT or dies

Geo:
- Entrust scalable with Geomancy+

Core Mechanic:
- Uncap Subtle blow and adjust the Subtle blow trait/add more subtle blow where needed

Melee:
- Balancing inbetween melees by adjustin WSs/other stuff

Nerf:
- SCHs can only do Level 1 skillchains
- Bursting on Level 1 skillchains results in lower Magic Burst dmg and Significantly enhanced enmity gain.
- Skillchains created with the same weapontype get after the first skillchain step no further bonus on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg (Slashing Blunt Piercing Ranged)

Buff:
- (multistep) Skillchains recieve a larger buff on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg if there are multiple different weapontypes included: as in Blunt Slashing Piercing Ranged

That looks like a lot of work SE won't do this.

[vivbiibasjiu]

I always thought it was dumb that getting hit gives you and enemies TP, when a few people are hitting an NM it's like they have perma-brave on from Bravely Default. Maybe they should just abolish that completely and instead give every monster Occult Acumen so they gain TP from giving hits and from casting spells, and leave jobs or equipment with traits that increase TP gain when you get hit to be the only exception for PCs to continue receiving TP from hits (just give them whatever it added but remove the base)

As for balancing melees maybe they'll make STR and DEX convert at 1:1 and call it a day, that should help a bit with accuracy no?

And wow loading times are going to take a century now (as if they weren't bad enough already!)

[Sechs]

I like those suggestions a lot Mane, but it's not gonna happen.
For the BRD/COR autodrop thing I think it might be a technical limit on their side.

[wipers]

I like those suggestions a lot Mane, but it's not gonna happen.
For the BRD/COR autodrop thing I think it might be a technical limit on their side.

PS2 strikes again ! Anytime they "adjust things" expect lots of main. to fix them.

[Seha]

letting mythic AM3 and double/triple shot work on ws

Triple Leaden...fapfapfap.

[FaeQueenCory]

Triple Leaden...fapfapfap.

Wouldn't that be moot even if AM3 worked for rangedWS?

Cause it's magical?

[Kyte]

She's going off the assumption that it would be included in the theoretical change. After all, this is just a wishlist anyways.

[dasva]

Speaking of AM3... maybe ranged the same as melee. Stupid melees getting to deal extra dmg and get more tp

[Kyte]

Changing it to the melee Aftermath (but still leaving out WS activation) would probably be the fairest change.

[dasva]

Yeah probably not a good idea really do both. I mean could you imagine 3000 tp last stand with a OA3 proc? All aboard the 21 ftp train lol.