Dev Tracker: Discussion

[geno3302]

PS2 strikes again ! Anytime they "adjust things" expect lots of main. to fix them.

Nothing to do with PS2. It does however show, yet again, that their server code is just as fucked as their client code.

[dasva]

So new jp dev post. From what I can make out of it it sounds like they are adjustment automaton melee too along with player and make it more like bst pets. Guess they mean pdif calcs will be more like the pet ones and I guess autos are actually same as player right now.

[Damane]

So new jp dev post. From what I can make out of it it sounds like they are adjustment automaton melee too along with player and make it more like bst pets. Guess they mean pdif calcs will be more like the pet ones and I guess autos are actually same as player right now.

sounds like a buff?

[Yeager]

Literal translation from Google Translator. Pretty much explains it.

In the February version up,
Along with the adjustment of the player character,
Damage calculation formula of the automaton is also subject.
It will be to refer to the same formula as the Beastmaster pet,
It is raised, such as the upper limit of the damage.

So it sounds like DD jobs AND Automatons are getting a pretty nice buff. Good, but it still doesn't solve the issue of massive AoE wiping those DD out regardless of their DT sets.

[Yeager]

Camate just posted this.

One other thing I would like to note is that we will be making adjustments to the damage calculations of melee attacks and ranged attacks, and this will also apply to automatons. You’ll be able to reference the same calculations for beastmaster’s pets, and the damage cap can be increased.

So, a pretty significant buff to melee, ranged attack, and to puppets.

[dasva]

So pdif caps of 5ish for everyone? Sounds good. Unified pdif make it easier to figure dmg out and for that matter finally solid pet pdif equations. Though def down is going to be even more important. So geo still gunna be king. Wonder what they mean by dmg cap increased though... are they basically just repeating themselves with cap raising on calcs or they mean the actually 99,999 thing...

[Fwahm]

Perhaps they're changing the cRatio > PDIF ratio so that melees just plain do more damage.

[steellord]

i dont think melee dmg as it is needs a buff, as other people pointed out, but rather the party-dynamic between jobs is skewed due to mob behaviour.
I would suggest the following adjustments:

BRD:
- Make Songs undispellable
- Make Songs instantly drop as soon as BRD leaves the PT or dies

COR:
- Make Rolls undispellable
- Make rolls instantly drop as soon as the COR leaves the PT or dies

Geo:
- Entrust scalable with Geomancy+

Core Mechanic:
- Uncap Subtle blow and adjust the Subtle blow trait/add more subtle blow where needed

Melee:
- Balancing inbetween melees by adjustin WSs/other stuff

Nerf:
- SCHs can only do Level 1 skillchains
- Bursting on Level 1 skillchains results in lower Magic Burst dmg and Significantly enhanced enmity gain.
- Skillchains created with the same weapontype get after the first skillchain step no further bonus on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg (Slashing Blunt Piercing Ranged)

Buff:
- (multistep) Skillchains recieve a larger buff on Skillchian dmg and Magic Burst dmg if there are multiple different weapontypes included: as in Blunt Slashing Piercing Ranged

they'd nerf mob aoe first since like someone said, too much work for SE

since they don't play their game, they probably have no idea why melee aren't actually used...they think it's low damage when in reality it's problems like you point out

[geno3302]

Just throwing this out there, since we haven't had someone translate the JP post (other than the NA team that often makes mistakes.) The wording doesn't rule out the possibility that they mean that automatons will have the same function as beast pets but not players.
The "You'll" might mean you puppet masters. Could be everyone though.

[Viar]

they'd nerf mob aoe first since like someone said, too much work for SE

since they don't play their game, they probably have no idea why melee aren't actually used...they think it's low damage when in reality it's problems like you point out

IMO mob Aoe are still pretty toleratable considering we have been dealing with them for years with stun, PD, and now vex attunement and mewing lullaby.

It's really the accuracy requirement that needs adjustment IMO.

[Ramzii]

dear se where the fuck are my god damn campaigns

[dasva]

Just throwing this out there, since we haven't had someone translate the JP post (other than the NA team that often makes mistakes.) The wording doesn't rule out the possibility that they mean that automatons will have the same function as beast pets but not players.
The "You'll" might mean you puppet masters. Could be everyone though.

I doubt it. They already said they were buffing player melee dmg a bit back so this sounded more like a hey btw autos getting it too

[dasva]

IMO mob Aoe are still pretty toleratable considering we have been dealing with them for years with stun, PD, and now vex attunement and mewing lullaby.

It's really the accuracy requirement that needs adjustment IMO.

It's kind of a different situation than in the past. Bringing extras even dmg dealers on the harder mobs makes the fights significantly harder do to SEs ridiculous scaling idea. So bringing a few others that are mostly just keeping the melees alive would be even worse. So there is a need to keep it streamline. You could get enough acc in these fights too but then you are wasting slots on just that to be able to hit.

It's really a combination of things. It ends up being having to dedicate slots to healers, and some job(s) to stop the tp moves from wrecking the group, and acc buffers/evasion debuffers and of course a tank just to get some melees doing dmg. And now you don't have room for hardly any melees. While mob hp goes thru the roof and you are basically expecting a single melee to do the dmg of 2-3 MBing blms.

That doesn't even get into the fact that a lot of them have tons of adds or stun resistance that make stun locking hard, or that PD has been nerfed and doubtful you zerging it to death in time with all the support needed, or how mewing doesn't work great with hasted melees

[NynJa]

I wouldnt say the scaling is ridiculous on its own, its a great idea in practice, its just implemented on the basis that all jobs are created equal.

[dasva]

I'd say with no side be it's kind of ridiculous. It's already hard to get people to do stuff in large groups with 1 static treasure pool without scaling when you can more efficiently do smaller groups. Maybe if they upped drop rates or something might make more sense

[arus2001]

I've generally viewed stuff like Stuns and PD as something that should be "nice to have" during clutch moments like a mob SP. Unfortunately, content design and how we've overcome challenges in the past sort of made them must-have since we either didn't understand a mob properly or just brute forced our way through it because, hey, it worked. SE's more sadistic mob design in the early days didn't help, either.

Job overlap also becomes a bit of a concern here. 2 GEO, BRDs, or even CORs "work" because they have enough abilities where overlap isn't a concern. Meanwhile, having 2 RDMs is only really useful for Refreshing a couple parties and some spot healing since 2 slow spells will never stack, etc.. 2 tanks "makes sense" in situations where the mob might have an individual hate reset or adds to gather. BLMs don't have a whole lot of competition in the magic department, with SCHs being closest and just different enough with their ability to create SCs that their pairing isn't a detriment. Your general melee kinda gets fuxx0red by SC options, the efficacy of associated WS, weapon type compatibility (slash/pierce/blunt), and of course what the target can do to them while they're trying to do their thing. As we know, that last part is what adds stress to the support roles, and anyone who's been playing MMOs long enough should know, the path of least resistance tends to win over the general population even if it isn't the only way to get something done. In XI's history, that's led to stuff like RNG burns, Mana burns, Astral Burns, Utsu all the things, CS Stun for DL and a number of big bads after, BST cheese, etc.. So, while we'll always find a "best" way to tackle something, I'd say it behooves SE to make the not-as-good options better than they are.

So, yeah, that means making stuff like Stuns or PDs not required. Changing FU AoEs to perhaps conal or some other avoidable condition. Melee doing more damage will help somewhat, yes, but TP feed, survivability, and sustainability are still all valid concerns. Shit, even making more defensive subjob options more appealing could help out some, like a way for /DNC to juice up Samba output for like 30s to recover from a bit hit more quickly (for all other melee, too). No, it probably wouldn't beat out /WAR or /SAM hit-for-hit, but as the old adage goes, you're doing 0 damage if you're dead. Obviously, we can be all cynical and say they'd never do it because it'd actually be work for them, but I'll just kinda default to the old thought of them being paid for such. If they're not actually working, more people need to be shitting in their cereal.

[Rehn]

Have they ever mentioned expanding eschan bead uses? Would hope they would actually throw reisen stones on Nolan so I have a use for beads again.

[Trumpy]

they want you to use them 50k beads for every aeonic weapon u make!

[Sechs]

I wouldnt say the scaling is ridiculous on its own, its a great idea in practice, its just implemented on the basis that all jobs are created equal.

^ This.
And it's poorly implemented anyway. Loot doesn't scale and HP is the only thing that really scales (as far as we know, there have been theories about other things but it was never demonstrated).
A better, deeper scaling system would've been awesome. Blizzard's scaling system is not perfect but is certainly a better implementation than this, for instance.

[Fwahm]

HP and Loot should be the only things that scale, but the problem is that due to how FFXI's battle system works, adding more people introduces indirect scaling that throws off the balance. If you bring more people, TP feed increases, damage taken and statuses received from AoEs increases, Skillchain interference increases, and Magic Burst nerfing increases.

Adding more things that scale with more people is the opposite of what the system needs.