Dev Tracker: Discussion

[NynJa]

which would be after I posted...nothing new tho. cp gain is back atleast

[Sechs]

Well, the WKR Campaign plus (4 per win! not 2!) is personally VERY unexpected. I could've seen the return of the 2x bonus one, but another week of the 4x one was totally totally totally unexpected.
Is this supposedly the last week of rainbow campaign?


I'm personally happy of these one week campaigns, but slightly disappointed that:
1) there has not been a "Alluvion Skirmish augment plus" campaign. Just like the Skirmish v1 one, but for Alluvion gear
2) there has not been a SR campaign. Something like... dunno, slightly better chance to get perf augs, or whatever else really. Was really hoping for them to make at least one week of SR promoting campaign.

[Damane]

they nees to release Sinister reign CoP ToAU and WotG versions!

[Sechs]

Don't you kinda already have HTBF for those? Or you mean fight against chars you never fought before like Ulmia etc?
That would be very neat!
But would do nothing against what I'm asking for (a small window of "SR promoter", with like slightly better chances at augments or stuff like that)

[Isiolia]

they nees to release Sinister reign CoP ToAU and WotG versions!

It does seem like a very practical thing to do. I assume they could build new versions of SR utilizing Trust models/animations. If nothing else, it could be framed as a tournament across Vana'diel, with teams representing different nations/groups.

[Jem]

Don't they already have some of the base AI in place too from the special BCNM's?

[Draylo]

^ this.
Game kinda gives you two paths. Wanna test your luck? Maybe you're gonna be lucky and get an awesome piece for cheap.
Don't want to bother? Then get an Abj and for a bit of gil (or a LOT of gil if we're talking HQ lol) you're gonna get a great piece with no luck involved.
It sounds perfect on paper.
In reality Reisen gear and their augments are a bit stronger than they were supposed to be imho. SE tried to put a patch on it by increasing stats of some abj gear, but it wasn't enough.
Still... it could've been worse, is what I'm trying to say.



Yeah ok but now don't exagerate in the opposite direction lol.
Some people complain about anything. (I'm a bit of a complainer myself, you know me).
I understand what you're trying to say and I 100% agree with you, but I'm not sure the example you chose is the best one.
10k mats for RME was quite a dick move. They could and should've set it to somewhere around 5k. AG owners would've been just as butthurt as they are now, but at least everybody else would've felt less frustrated.
Things are gonna get nasty once the campaign is over and the HTBF stop dropping so many mats.

Over 150 mils to upgrade stuff like Ergons in particular was especially unnecessary and stupid. Their goal of offering mid/long term goals for players was absolutely right, but they should've looked for a better compromise than the annoying 10k items move.

They added long term goals to keep people around. Plenty of people were upset during the Delve days when everything was given to them after getting tons and tons of plasm. I remember people here posting "geeze SE, at least give us a long term goal, I'm so bored since I'm capped out on Delve items." Without a long term goal people quit a lot faster and it has a chain effect. 100m on these weapons is not bad or hard to come up with these days. Even after the campaign ends all it does is add a 3rd slot in personal pool, so you can still do these BCNMS. I'm just glad SE doesn't take peoples advice on these issues, they just don't know wth they want. Getting handed everything and completing things super fast = people quit and it hurts the game. I have friends that do all kinds of things for gil with just one character and they manage to make progress pretty decently on whatever they want, there's a lot of ways to make gil now. I don't see you making a better solution though that doesn't screw old AG owners over even more? Just cutting the cost in half would still have people complaining and just further spit in the face of previous AG owners. I don't even see that many people complaining as much, all I see is the 5 millions afterglows running around town or lockstyling it.

[Sechs]

They added long term goals to keep people around.
[cut]

Absolutely.
And that revitalized HTBF content as a whole, giving players more "content" they are interested in and they can choose from. It's a fantastic move for the game's health in general, kudos to them.
I was more saying that they could've still offered a somewhat long term goal, but... less lenghty if you get what I mean?
Especially for people who have multiple RME (not my case! Talking in general) having to "spend" 150m for each of them is a bit too "long" of a term for my standards?
5k mats would've still been somewhat "long" but more bearable is what I'm trying to say.

I think we can simplify people in two major categories when it comes to stuff like this.
People who are gonna get their goal no matter what (either rawpowering through it or taking their time) and people who see that goal as "too hard" to the point they won't even bother with it because they feel overwhelmed.
Not saying who is right and who is wrong, just saying both categories exist and I think both have large numbers within their ranks.

Even after the campaign ends all it does is add a 3rd slot in personal pool

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the campaign had two effects. One is the third personal pool thing (which is a lot by itself, especially for people who go with mules and then sell, hence creating a much larger supply on the market and hence reducing the market cost) but also increases the odds of those slots being HQ version (box instead of case).

they just don't know wth they want.

People more often than not, in MMO games, demand things unaware that if they were ever granted, it would not beneficial neither for them not for the game's health.
Agreed.
But still, would something like 5k instead of 10k have been such an unbearable compromise?

Just cutting the cost in half would still have people complaining and just further spit in the face of previous AG owners.

I can understand and empathize with the AG owners standpoint, but even 10k is a dickmove in their regards, so going 5k wouldn't have made them more butthurt, would it?
And I reckon people would've still complained, as said before some people just complain no matter what, but I still believe that 5k would've achieved the same goal (people busy for a somewhat long term), if not for a single weapon at least for multiple ones, and for the second category I described above which, as of now, is completely untouched by the benefits of this scenario because they are simply ignoring it thinking it's out of their reach.

[Damane]

people didnt moan about delve handing out gear too fast. people moaned that REMs were rendered useless with delve and everything else makeing all content irrelevant and abolishing the RME longterm goal.
RMEs didnt need another super grind now because there is enougj variety in content present compared to delve times.
people never wanted another grind for RMEs updrades, because it is grindy enough. They just dont want them to be useless. thats a big difference imho.

[Isiolia]

I can understand and empathize with the AG owners standpoint, but even 10k is a dickmove in their regards, so going 5k wouldn't have made them more butthurt, would it?
And I reckon people would've still complained, as said before some people just complain no matter what, but I still believe that 5k would've achieved the same goal (people busy for a somewhat long term), if not for a single weapon at least for multiple ones, and for the second category I described above which, as of now, is completely untouched by the benefits of this scenario because they are simply ignoring it thinking it's out of their reach.

I think a lot of this also has to do with the present economy for the items - and demand is probably going to keep costs relatively high for a while. Eventually though, costs should gradually go down.

That said, I agree with the general sentiment. Part of retaining players by keeping them occupied is giving them goals that are appealing. As much as collecting 10k rocks might keep people busy for a little, it'll also dissuade them from starting a new weapon. It's not about it being doable, it's about it being fun.

[NynJa]

I think thats something thats getting lost in the shuffle: urge to make a new weapon.

Between my 3 chars, i have 3 relics, and 3 mythics. Fortunately, two of those relics never need to get upgraded (Aegis/Gjallar), but i still need 30k beits and 10k plutons for my ryuno (lol), Koga, mandau and Laev. Thats a massive grindy mc grind. If i wanted to make another weapon, i have to grind out the currency, i still have to do the magian trials again (the kill shot ones are still very annoying) and grindy mcgrind another 10.3k stones. Its not really appealing. Everything with maintaining RME's is a grind.

Plenty of people were upset during the Delve days when everything was given to them after getting tons and tons of plasm. I remember people here posting "geeze SE, at least give us a long term goal, I'm so bored since I'm capped out on Delve items." Without a long term goal people quit a lot faster and it has a chain effect.

This was Matsui's fault, but not for the longevity reasons you're thinking. He underestimated the playerbase's desire to not do A then B then C. The original plan was to not be able to kill the 3 bosses right away, that you'd have to grind your way up with the gear to be geared enough to beat Tojil. Insead, it became superbuff the DD's via outside buffs and zerg it down, which made Delve obsolete a lot faster.

[Fwahm]

Honestly, I think that instead of using 10,000 stones to upgrade a single weapon, it'd be better if the system was that you'd give Oboro 10,000 of any stone, and that'd permanently give him the ability to 121 any of your RMEs at will.

[Tarage]

The thing that I'm predicting will happen is that supply for all three types of stones is going to quickly dry up as soon as the campaign ends. That's why I rushed to farm enough gil to buy all that I needed. I think prices are going to skyrocket.

[NynJa]

But the RME grind has a known end. Imagine if the 121 upgrade was "we need a certain Pluton, theyre not all created equal, it has to have absolutely flawless texture (internally roll 99 out of 0-99) and have a perfect chemical balance (internally roll another 99) to fully maximize the power of your weapon". Those odds are 1:10000, and yet there are people out there who could turn in 20k plutons and never get their 121.

Even if the end is far far away, its still better to know where your goal is instead of being in a room of thousand's of locked doors and trying to pick the one right door.

[Sechs]

I think a lot of this also has to do with the present economy for the items - and demand is probably going to keep costs relatively high for a while. Eventually though, costs should gradually go down.

Eventually, in a long time, I can see them drop to 5k, supposing you can even find them on the market though. 10k isn't exactely a small number.
Think it's gonna take them a LONG time to drop to 5k and I don't seem them dropping under that.

As much as collecting 10k rocks might keep people busy for a little, it'll also dissuade them from starting a new weapon. It's not about it being doable, it's about it being fun.

Yeah that's another thing. In addition to people who just ignore that because they feel overwhelmed, there's also people who won't do another RME because they think of how much work it would do with this new trial they added.
I agree with you and Nynja on that.
But oh well, kinda useless to complain about that now, way too late =/

people didnt moan about delve handing out gear too fast. people moaned that REMs were rendered useless with delve and everything else makeing all content irrelevant and abolishing the RME longterm goal.

Yeah to be fair I perfectly remember people moaning about that and threaten to quit game. Some probably really did.
I don't really remember as much of a fuss about Delve drops and gearing too fast until after Delve2 hits honestly.

[arus2001]

I think everyone has a different "shit went downhill" point with the game. The gap between WotG and Abyssea is a good example, though some would go earlier with caps being taken off mission BCs. Mine would probably be the VW/Legion era. Things have improved in some ways since then, absolutely, but there's still some disconnect from devs and players alike.

[dasva]

So on another note seems like something is up with the commitment portion of this campaign. The notes say maximum benefit has been doubled like normal but when I pop Trizek ring cp quadrupled which makes it seem like the bonus itself was doubled too. Didn't really pay too much attention to capacity ring but it seemed normal amount

Edit: seems like some new dev posts. One seems to be about herc gear and something wrong with pet:VIT + ', pet:MND +, pet:CHR + augs on it with normal stones.

[Hitou]

So on another note seems like something is up with the commitment portion of this campaign. The notes say maximum benefit has been doubled like normal but when I pop Trizek ring cp quadrupled which makes it seem like the bonus itself was doubled too. Didn't really pay too much attention to capacity ring but it seemed normal amount.

I noticed that too, it's probably why there's emergency maint now. Normal exp/cap without ring or chains is unchanged.

[dasva]

I noticed that too, it's probably why there's emergency maint now. Normal exp/cap without ring or chains is unchanged.

Seems kind of a lame thing to emergency maintenance. I mean sure you can get some nice epeen numbers but rings wear in a single kill or 2. Speaking of epeen....

[Ligray]

New interviews being posted on famitsu, seems to be from the one SE was advertising. If Kincard/Slycer could translate, it would be nice.

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201603/22101822.html

Matsui video:



http://www.famitsu.com/news/201603/23101945.html

Seems to be apart of a four day series with the above being day 2, waiting for Tanaka portion that was shown in the prelease article for the magazine.