Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Make that DT sets. MDT doesn't work on Interference. It's a really really weird attack.
Details on the weirdness here.

That is weird... did you ever try pdt?

[dasva]

They make no mention of applying the same reduced stats patch to UNMs and HTBFs, that's such a shame...
Anybody even tried UNMW PW after patch?

It could be that they don't actually have an easy way to do this and so are ignoring it. Note a lot of big blanket changes have been made for entire zones now and in the past. Like the whole elimination of level correction was for soa and escha and legion long long before ambuscade was a twinkle and it was just 99 content but for other clvl content like that they had to do work arounds with directly inputting raised stats for those mobs because the level correct still in those zones would wreck you at high mob lvls. Similarly the AoE dmg reduction was legion zones only at first... and there is the fact they even put ambuscade in the only non new zone that had changes worked on it. And then there is this being zoned based.

Totally not a dev/programmer but I'd guess they have a way of changing stats of monsters, abilities and even basic things like pdif calcs on a zone wide base that is relatively easy to do, but a handful of nms scattered across the world in low lvl zones would have to be manually edited individually and they don't care enough for that

[Martel]

That is weird... did you ever try pdt?

I don't recall explicitly testing PDT, but I'm pretty damn sure it's not physical. I don't mind retesting when I get home. If you think of anything else that could be tested, let me know and I can try at the same time.

EDIT: I think I'll also test WHM barspells. A WHM's barspells have a not-insignificant element specific MDB component and MDB works on Interference. So even if I don't get an outright resist, I should see a dmg reduction when I hit the right element. I jsut can't test Light/Dark that way. But, beats the hell outta trying to Liement it.

Personally I suspect it's non-elemental, but we'll see.

EDIT2: Whatever my results turn out to be, I need to get them onto the wiki somewhere... Mob attacks don't get their own pages on BGwiki.. would this info just go on the caturae page?

[dasva]

I don't recall explicitly testing PDT, but I'm pretty damn sure it's not physical. I don't mind retesting when I get home. If you think of anything else that could be tested, let me know and I can try at the same time.

EDIT: I think I'll also test WHM barspells. A WHM's barspells have a not-insignificant element specific MDB component and MDB works on Interference. So even if I don't get an outright resist, I should see a dmg reduction when I hit the right element. I jsut can't test Light/Dark that way. But, beats the hell outta trying to Liement it.

Personally I suspect it's non-elemental, but we'll see.

OH I know pdt would be really weird but I can't think of any dmg in the game DT works on that mdt, pdt, and bdt don't work.

Similar I wouldn't expect barspell to work since vallation since I don't think there is anything we've confirmed with an element it hasn't worked on. Though has QD been tested? I know sdts effect QD and that's basically what vallation is but QD is just so weird.

Man that is pretty weird though. Not sure what players are seeing but I know my autos take laughably low dmg with it and I don't think they are resisting

[Martel]

Don't puppets have some innate DT-? then stout servant, iirc? And they have a higher DT cap than players, so I could see it being less of a problem for them.

I knew that Vallation works on magic and breath dmg, but I hadn't heard anything about it being SDT. Would make sense seeing as it's a different term than either. I just figured the reason it didn't work was either because MDT/BDT didn't work, or because it's possibly non-elemental.

I'm not sure what about QD we'd be testing here.

[Sechs]

It could be that they don't actually have an easy way to do this and so are ignoring it. Note a lot of big blanket changes have been made for entire zones now and in the past. Like the whole elimination of level correction was for soa and escha and legion long long before ambuscade was a twinkle and it was just 99 content but for other clvl content like that they had to do work arounds with directly inputting raised stats for those mobs because the level correct still in those zones would wreck you at high mob lvls. Similarly the AoE dmg reduction was legion zones only at first... and there is the fact they even put ambuscade in the only non new zone that had changes worked on it. And then there is this being zoned based.

Totally not a dev/programmer but I'd guess they have a way of changing stats of monsters, abilities and even basic things like pdif calcs on a zone wide base that is relatively easy to do, but a handful of nms scattered across the world in low lvl zones would have to be manually edited individually and they don't care enough for that

Pretty confident you nailed.
Saevel on FFXIAH posted a way of how their systems could work which in my opinion is probably very close to the truth, and it's fitting your hypothesys too.
Doesn't change the fact they could easily solve it by making so when you start a HTBF or an UNM, you get a small skills buff. Would be more or less the same result, and I'm pretty sure this could be easily feasible.

Yet we all know it's not gonna happen. Tbf it's content on which this loss is hardly that relevant in the end, but I still find it annoying in general.

[The Assman]

I'm not sure what about QD we'd be testing here.

QD is affected by all elemental things (resists and SDT), but not PDT, MDT, or BDT. I guess it needs to be tested if QD is affected by general -DT. If not, that might make it similar to Interference?

[dasva]

Don't puppets have some innate DT-? then stout servant, iirc? And they have a higher DT cap than players, so I could see it being less of a problem for them.

I knew that Vallation works on magic and breath dmg, but I hadn't heard anything about it being SDT. Would make sense seeing as it's a different term than either. I just figured the reason it didn't work was either because MDT/BDT didn't work, or because it's possibly non-elemental.

I'm not sure what about QD we'd be testing here.

That's actually a misconception based on old incomplete testing. Each frame has it's own amount of pdt, mdt and presumably bdt however never bothered testing that. Some go down to zero like iirc mage frame was 0 pdt some go pretty high I think mages mdt was around 20. Would have to check thread for results. Stout servant yes 9% and yes I have gear. And higher caps yes. But in terms of pure DT not the individual ones when facing that I'm usually only rocking 42% (that's gear + SS) since usually wearing tp bonus head. Been using sharpshot a bit lately so that's a little bit more pdt and of course been rocking the pdt attachments... actually due to recent testing I did on them I started using 2 to up my survivability on kyou during HF and I think inferences have been getting even more miniscule. Though eyeballing is eyeballing plus I'm usually half afk just putting maneuvers and rolls back up or not in range to see dmg in logs each time.

Well by basically I meant by how it acts. In the way it reduces dmg of the element regardless of dmg type and is separate from other multipliers and works on things that ignore mdb or dt. Obviously can't call them the same since can't give vallation to something with an elemental sdt unless some trusts have them I guess. Yeah I'd agree probably non elemental though

QD was more of a semi derail in regards to vallation ~sdt talk. As far as I know everything sdt effects vallation does as well but QD is a big weird dmg that accounts for most magic multipliers but not dt and while I have tested sdt with qd I don't know of any testing for qd and vallation probably because it wouldn't matter outside of pvp

[Fwahm]

Can't you give Vallation to Fu? Caturaes have darkness SDT.

[dasva]

Can't you give Vallation to Fu? Caturaes have darkness SDT.

Not sure haven't done Run on him... does he actually gain the effect? Could swear I saw someone somewhere saying they still would keep shell up to have it absorb and it didn't effect their magic dmg and his "absorb" is definitely pretty weird since absorbing multiples of the exact same buff definitely has an increased effect

Also is it actually SDT or just extreme resistance? Anyone get a full duration ES frazzle?

[Fwahm]

I've always done Fu as a melee, and we're always pretty careful with buffs, but my mages have mentioned dispelling stuff like Hasso. The attack and MAB boost from absorbing buffs is separate from the effects of the buffs themselves.

[dasva]

Yeah I wasn't sure I always do worthless buffs just in case

[Martel]

Preliminary result. Was going to test more stuff but had omen.

PDT definitely doesn't work. added 20% PDT and no change in interference damage at all. It's also not shield blockable, which is often(but not always) a decent indication of physical dmg.

Also Retested MDT(doesn't work), and had started barspell testing when I ran outta time...

I thought I had something for a sec when I took 145 dmg(vs 1160) with barfire up, but the next one hit for full dmg. even if I didn't get a resist if it was fire elemental the MDB attached to WHM barspells should have reduced the dmg... random resist? I can only assume that even with no ilvl gear on a lvl 99(Master PLD so +42 meva) still has the meva to occasionally get a full resist? even though none of the nukes seemed to be resisting?

Changed to barstone, and had the same thing happen. a 145 followed by a full dmg 1160. I don't even... I'll mess with this more when I have time.

[dasva]

Macro swap animators!! Hmmm I should test this out I guess

So a bit late but it totally works... sometimes

[Sechs]

Can't you give Vallation to Fu? Caturaes have darkness SDT.

Fu cannot dispel/absorb buffs which are undispellable.

All "Ward" buffs on RUN become indispellable if you use them with at least 3 runes up.

[Kyte]

I'm pretty sure Fu doesn't actually absorb buffs, anyways.

You could test vallation vs QD on Glassy Gorger if you think a PvP test is unreliable.

[dasva]

Gorger is even weirder though. It "absorbs" buffs that aren't even on the thing being absorbed from.

[Kyte]

Can't say I've noticed that. Do you actually have evidence of that?

[dasva]

Maneuvers on the master are "absorbed" from the pet. So is overdrive btw. cor rolls don't. bst is weird with some not being real buffs but just boost pet and others actually being a pet buff but don't think any are player buffs that effect pets. Not sure about smn.

Should note Gorger is the only mob in the game that does that.

[Fwahm]

Are you sure maneuvers aren't on the pet as well?