Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Martel]

I debate this point. Such a dstat would only come into play with a target and mathematically calling it macc meva or a 3rd dstat modifier when calculating hit rate. Using similar you could say acc wasn't checkable because the game uses level correction to modify "accuracy" but instead we all except it's a term separate from acc-evasion term when calculating physical hit rate

... You have a point. I guess it's more like a magic hit rate modifier than a actual increase to macc. It's just that, from a testing standpoint there's little difference between changes to macc/meva and magic hit rate. We can only measure effects as a hit rate%. But hey, if the command I suggested existed then we could get hard macc numbers.

[Byrthnoth]

The best physical accuracy analogy would be asking the game "what's my accuracy" before putting on your weapon. It could technically calculate some base accuracy for you, but it would have to do it for every skill.

With magic, the problem is similar but even further split. Even if we had an analogy to physical accuracy, we'd still have to figure out effective MAcc/dStat thresholds for each spell on each monster that we care about.

[Nyarlko]

The best physical accuracy analogy would be asking the game "what's my accuracy" before putting on your weapon. It could technically calculate some base accuracy for you, but it would have to do it for every skill.

With magic, the problem is similar but even further split. Even if we had an analogy to physical accuracy, we'd still have to figure out effective MAcc/dStat thresholds for each spell on each monster that we care about.

If you asked it with no weapon equipped, wouldn't you get H2H? XD

[Sirious]

Then they can give it a qualifier; /checkparam dark macc /checkparam ninjutsu /checkparam divine

The game already knows your stats, they're just making excuses why it can't be shown to the player to avoid having to fix things they shouldve addressed a long time ago. The only reason to hide something is literally hiding something.

[dasva]

Level correction doesn't actually modify the accuracy values tho? It may mess with your target's evasion rating in some way, but your accuracy rating won't change even if your target is +50lvl above you.

That's the point. It like dstat only matter in terms of hit rate. We don't know dstat actually adds to macc and mathematically it makes no difference where you put the dstat factor in. People are just stuck in that thinking because original testers put it together for simplicity. SE has already shown mob stats that effect hit rates are non problems so the only thing we really have to deal with is the fact we'd need like 9 separate macc for each skill for it to be very useful and well if we made a magic based checkparam we'd have to have mab and mdb and base meva there too so yay twice the lines as current check param by itself

[Fwahm]

You'd need more than 9 MACCs for each skill for it to be very useful, considering different spells have different magic accuracy modifiers, sometimes significantly.

Plus, for the current state of the game, dStat is a heck of a lot more important to magic hit rate than level correction is to physical hit rate, and it being so variable would make a listed "base" magic accuracy stat of dubious usefulness in the first place.

[Sirious]

Guys, No seriously GUYS.

BST already fucking has a way to check macc. So the ability to do so already exists.

I totally forgot about this, because when's the last time anyone used it.

Copy/Paste now mages can check macc.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Gauge It checks your CHR vs the target. There's no excuse for not doing the exact same thing for INT MND and CHR spells. (slightly modified of course ie; you have a 10% chance of resisting etc)

[Fwahm]

The fact that you'd need a message for every single spell you know AND a target for it to be very useful is a reason for them not to implement it, because that'd be ton of work.

Not to mention Gauge only affects non-NMs, and SE has had a history of wanting to keep NM stats away from things like /check.

[Sirious]

That's not the point. The point is it's entirely possible.

If they just are to lazy to do it or want it a secret, then just say so. Don't make shitty excuses.

[Byrthnoth]

Gauge actually only returns the magic accuracy of a single ability/spell, so it's in line with what he said.

Interestingly, and I guess this never made it to the wiki, the Gauge action packet has an extra parameter in it that is proportional to dCHR. I forget more details than that, but it wasn't complicated.

[Fwahm]

That's not the point. The point is it's entirely possible.

If they just are to lazy to do it or want it a secret, then just say so. Don't make shitty excuses.

They never said it was completely impossible; they said it'd be FAR too difficult and time consuming to be worth their time.

Also, even it being possible relies on them giving us direct access to NM stats for the dstat parameter, so if they're not willing to give that to use, it IS impossible on anything of use.

[dasva]

You'd need more than 9 MACCs for each skill for it to be very useful, considering different spells have different magic accuracy modifiers, sometimes significantly.

Plus, for the current state of the game, dStat is a heck of a lot more important to magic hit rate than level correction is to physical hit rate, and it being so variable would make a listed "base" magic accuracy stat of dubious usefulness in the first place.

Or do mobs have difference evasions to different spells? . In terms of hit rate which is what we care about there is little difference

Hit rate sure... but that's just current play style. Well unless you are AC zerging I guess. But wasn't that way when they gave us /checkparam. Well depending on if they actually applied the level correction nerf to acc since they only specified pdif.

Mostly what would be nice is to have a nice addition of buffs, skill component, and traits jt/jp/merits. That would at least give some kind of easy way to check and compare similar to melees though slightly more complicated. Like hey with xxx macc and xxx stat I can land this spell on this mob. Very similar to the old 320/120 maximum but in an age where we have a lot more options. Give us a better idea what certain buffs do... or ya know show us if they are massively broken *cough geo*. Give us definitive relationships between skill and macc at all levels for all skills that are crazy hard to test. Give us a nice baseline to do testing with or at least help us gather data easier. Also might clear up a bit of assumptions about spells and their maccs that well are pretty much unprovable right now

[Nyarlko]

Or do mobs have difference evasions to different spells? . In terms of hit rate which is what we care about there is little difference

Mobs do have varying status and elemental resistances, which throws yet another monkey wrench into the works. I imagine that most mobs have different MND/INT values, which would also cause different "base" resist rates.

[dasva]

Mobs do have varying status and elemental resistances, which throws yet another monkey wrench into the works. I imagine that most mobs have different MND/INT values, which would also cause different "base" resist rates.

Most mobs do vary in all stats and resistances by level, family and job type though all that goes out the window with NMs which SE has pretty much said they adjust however the heck they want...

Going back to finding things massively broken with numbers we have for macc someone on the ah just pointed out some jp testing that shows elemental magic skill, macc, and magic accuracy skill are roughly equivalent despite SEs claim that macc skill was ~.5 macc. Having a hard time with some of this since a lot of it is picture tables that don't work with google translate but the conclusion seems solid

[arus2001]

Also need to keep in mind that spells are individually coded with their own unique accuracy. Stuff like Stun or Flash tends to be fairly accurate, but something like 1000 Needles is laughably bad. I can understand why people may want a base value, but there's still too much shit at play to really get an exact measurement.

[Damane]

That's not the point. The point is it's entirely possible.

If they just are to lazy to do it or want it a secret, then just say so. Don't make shitty excuses.

the excuse is 4673675 different spells they would need to make this work for. Each spell has its base m.acc line. and some spells macc scales fairly different with stats. And then there is the whole elementel spellmacc vs the actual debuff landing with the spell acc (Absorb spell anyone?)

Its just not feasable and accurate to do so


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[Nyarlko]

New devposts:

JP1) Weekly post summary. Nothing new, but they've summarized the item stack size issue and the macc/meva on /checkparam issue very well. If you are interested go chuck the link into GTrans. ^^

JP2) There is a bug with the crag teleport rings not showing up from the Curio Vendor Moogle for some people. It will be addressed soon.

JP3) The basic function and flavor of the new Boost is working as intended. It extends the autoattack delay when used, so even if consumed by a ws, you will still have to wait till the extended delay passes to go back to normal.

As a side-note, both of the bug reports I posted about Boost were accepted already. XD

[Nyarlko]

New Dev Posts:

JP1) Unfortunately, it is quite impossible to add AAEV's shield as a player usable item. It has diff proportions than normal shields, so it would cause graphical/clipping issues with player models. They tried shrinking it down to work w/ players and it didn't look like AAEV's shield anymore.

JP2) The displayed stats on Beryllium Mace are bugged (at least in the JP client it's only showing DMG & MND+7 lol). Devs are aware and it will be fixed in the next monthly update.

[Trumpy]

Usual login maint, I was hopin they would fix boost problems at this time but no luck

Aug. 7, 2017 22:27 [PDT] From: FINAL FANTASY XI

All Worlds Maintenance (Aug. 9)



At the following time, we will be performing server maintenance. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XI will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your patience.

* The World Transfer Service will be unavailable starting 30 minutes before the maintenance.

[Date & Time]
Aug. 9, 2017 22:00 to 23:30 (PDT)
* Completion time is subject to change.

[Detail]
-Preparations for the 2017 August Login Campaign
-Addressing issue with certain items not being sold with NPC “Curio Vendor Moogle”

[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XI

[Sechs]

There was no chance of that happening. I bet they're already on holiday and that the login thing was an already completed/scheduled stuff