Dev Tracker: Discussion

[arus2001]

I'd say this is offset by AF3+2 bonus

Would be nicer if such came naturally to RDM via traits, IMO. Something the reforged AF brought to the table as a future potential problem is the set being broken en lieu of higher enhancing skill. Some day I feel like the 500 cap will need to be broken on the potency front, which would basically introduce the shitty debate of potency vs. duration. Plus I'm selfish and would just like more active inventory space. I guess for now we should be glad Haste isn't skill-based, not that RDM being "master enhancer" means anything with Arts and gear options for other jobs.

[Kincard]

Yeah plus since innins bonuses only work from behind the -enmity is kinda the point. If anything should be more.

That's why I put it alongside removing the direction requirement. If you're using Innin in a group situation the PLD's not going to be holding hate from you. Granted this might change with whatever they end up doing to enmity, but the way it is right now I'd rather just have it be a case where if you use Innin you can hold hate through damage with no penalty to your enmity, whereas Yonin would be just for something you think you can dodge (which at this point is basically nothing that matters).

[Sechs]

That's why I put it alongside removing the direction requirement. If you're using Innin in a group situation the PLD's not going to be holding hate from you.

Waaa why? It does work! I mean it's not where it should be and you'll still need to hold back, but it's nowhere close to how the enmity situation was during the Abyssea days.
With other melees it's very unpractical to hold hate against a PLD, on NIN with Innin up it's not perfect but it's much more doable! Have you ever tried it? It works I swear!
And with the upcoming enmity fixes it might just get to that sweet point where it should always have been

I'm all for removing the positioning requirement (altough the decay over time is way more important, if we were to pick only one removals) but do not remove the -enmity plz! :'(


Edit:
What they could and should do for Innin and Yonin, rather than just giving a raw +/- enmity bonus, they should work on Enmity decay. Yonin should lower the speed at which enmity decays over time (both types) and Innin should accelerate it.
On the long run bonuses such as these would probably be more useful and more practical than straight +/- enmity adjustments.

[dasva]

That's why I put it alongside removing the direction requirement. If you're using Innin in a group situation the PLD's not going to be holding hate from you. Granted this might change with whatever they end up doing to enmity, but the way it is right now I'd rather just have it be a case where if you use Innin you can hold hate through damage with no penalty to your enmity, whereas Yonin would be just for something you think you can dodge (which at this point is basically nothing that matters).

I suppose but you are really just masking a small part the real problem. Idk always kinda liked the ideas behind nin stances. One you DD a lot better but can't (and wont want to) keep hate as well or survive as well. And on the other hand you wont melee has good but you will have a lot of bonuses to survivability and hate holding. With penalties if you do the opposite while you are in the wrong stance.

[dasva]

Would be nicer if such came naturally to RDM via traits, IMO. Something the reforged AF brought to the table as a future potential problem is the set being broken en lieu of higher enhancing skill. Some day I feel like the 500 cap will need to be broken on the potency front, which would basically introduce the shitty debate of potency vs. duration. Plus I'm selfish and would just like more active inventory space. I guess for now we should be glad Haste isn't skill-based, not that RDM being "master enhancer" means anything with Arts and gear options for other jobs.

I've long been a fan of them trying to make more of the buffs actually based on skill. If only so I don't have to listen to people tell me that sch is the best for shell/protect because it has more skill lol. But with the advent of arts might have to do something about it like not count arts somehow... like base skill + gear

[Dominico]

Create difficulty adjustment logic depending on the number of people participating
Adjust drop rate of Yggzi Beads
Add items that can be purchased with Mweya Plasm

All this combined almost screams that relic armor upgrades are done through Delve.

[arus2001]

I've long been a fan of them trying to make more of the buffs actually based on skill. If only so I don't have to listen to people tell me that sch is the best for shell/protect because it has more skill lol. But with the advent of arts might have to do something about it like not count arts somehow... like base skill + gear

The point of Arts for enhancing, then? -interrupt lulz?

Nah, this is where you either step into better spell tiers or even giving RDM traits that outright improve status modifying efficacy for both enhancing and enfeebling. Gimme dem 15 minute 30% Hastes or 13/tic Refreshes and an 80% Slow II pre-Sab. If SCH wants their thing, make Adloquium not suck so much. Fine tuning WHM with a Barspell variant would be okay here, too, just to not make RDM/WHM the default for magic defense purposes. And yes, I'm lobbing out arbitrarily high numbers on purpose because, damnit, mah blood is reeeeeed.

[Kincard]

If they can make Yonin/Innin so that they really work as tank/dps stances then I guess that's all the better, I guess I just don't really have faith they'd do it properly. The way it is right now though, there's no way a PLD's holding hate from any melee, even a NIN, for more than a couple seconds before, at best, they're both fighting for hate at maxed aggro, and in that case the NIN will have it most of the time because of their attack speed. The change this patch is not going to fix anything about the enmity because they're making hate generation based off of ilevel, I doubt that's going to make any sort of difference.

If you really want to fix Yonin/Innin so that they work properly, then there needs to be more done than just fixing how enmity works. NIN doesn't have any actions to use that take advantage of Yonin's extra enmity. When they went back and nerfed enmity on debuffs, they included ninjutsu for some stupid reason. This is why Yonin is totally useless. There is no hate tool for NIN better than just melee damage right now (except for Provoke for the start of a fight or you just took a hit or something). Most of the time I'm sure it just hurts your overall hate generation unless you were capped on accuracy with it on.

If you want to keep Innin as a "you have to not have aggro" scenario, then they should make it so that it works from the side as well as from the back (as a side note, they should make it so that sneak attack is like this again as well). I doubt they'll remove the decay, but given how weak ninja it's not like that'd break the job- though really 30% isn't likely higher than what we already get. We know very little about how it actually decays but it's probably reasonable to think you'll get something like 20% overall if you're refreshing every 3 minutes.

[Sechs]

I suppose but you are really just masking a small part the real problem. Idk always kinda liked the ideas behind nin stances. One you DD a lot better but can't (and wont want to) keep hate as well or survive as well. And on the other hand you wont melee has good but you will have a lot of bonuses to survivability and hate holding. With penalties if you do the opposite while you are in the wrong stance.

Exactely! The idea behind, the concept itself is fantastic.
It's the implementation that's disappointing.

[Darkmagi]

Remove the position requirement, remove the acc penalty on yonin.

[Prothescar]

RUN stuff (sorry if already posted):

-Increasing accuracy
-Adding new job abilities
-Adjusting runes



edit: oh nevermind, didn't realize there was an english post. ignore me

[scaevola]

Remove the position requirement, remove the acc penalty on yonin.

It's a pretty sad comment on the current state of NIN that this wouldn't actually be overpowered

appropos of nothing Steve Batariuscemi is my favorite bg avatar

[Sechs]

Remove the position requirement, remove the acc penalty on yonin.

Won't be enough! But it's a good start I guess.
Position requirement is less of an issue for Yonin than Innin imho, altough I agree they should remove it completely.
I'm more concerned bout the decay than the positioning.

[Kincard]

Removing the positioning would be a lot more useful than removing the decay. It means I can keep DPS bonuses I get from Innin even after I pull hate (which is going to happen). They already said they'd make the effects weaker if they removed the decay, so it'd probably just make them worse overall. Even as it is if you're refreshing the timer when it comes back up you're not missing out on that much of the effect. It doesn't decay to 10% until the very end and you usually don't reach there after they reduced the recast.

[ccl]

I feel nin does ok/good in AA atm, just make more fight need shadow and nin will be auto fixed

[dasva]

The point of Arts for enhancing, then? -interrupt lulz?

Nah, this is where you either step into better spell tiers or even giving RDM traits that outright improve status modifying efficacy for both enhancing and enfeebling. Gimme dem 15 minute 30% Hastes or 13/tic Refreshes and an 80% Slow II pre-Sab. If SCH wants their thing, make Adloquium not suck so much. Fine tuning WHM with a Barspell variant would be okay here, too, just to not make RDM/WHM the default for magic defense purposes. And yes, I'm lobbing out arbitrarily high numbers on purpose because, damnit, mah blood is reeeeeed.

Well maybe less potent as a subjob? Like only to go to C.

As far as those numbers they don't seem that crazy. Both brd and sch can do that much haste and refresh or more. And slow does so little as is so it needs a little something like that. Think ungimping saboteur would help too. Full potency on nms (which is the only thing worth using it on) and working with dia/bio. Change composure to work the same on others as it does on yourself now making the af3 ro something else.

[Spira]

One way that i could see them "renewing" Dynamis would be to add some mat drops to the neo-dynamis NMs.. and maybe have them drop a trig for 1 higher tier NM that drops 109/119 reforging mats far more frequently?

That would kinda give people more reason to kill Dynamis NMs (apart from Arch DL) in each zone.. and you have the day limiter system + numerous NMs to work with so it kinda spreads everyone out i guess.

[Treize Kordero]

You mean, even more?
With 5/5 Cat #2 Merits, Koga+2 midcast and Yonin active you get free spells like 85% of the times or something. And you want more than that? D: Might as well remove tools at that point lol


I always loved to mess up with magic on NIN and got up to the point (in Abyssea) where NIN was really really cool. It was basically what BLM and SCH is today. Spamming low tier spells for small but constant damage at the cost of no mp, with occasional spikes on Hyoton: San.
But... I dunno, do we really need this today? In the future, maybe, but for now I'd rather have them focus on way more important issues concerning NIN.


On sub? No way, what are you saying >.>
But I agree they need to buff them for good.
Remove the decay over time first, make them undispellable and change the -acc on Yonin into something else because it hurts NIN way too much for the things where Yonin could potentially be useful.

Well I just feel that the restrictions for Yonin and Innin should be for subbed NIN.. while main NIN shouldn't have positional restrictions, decaying buffs, and negative effects like -acc.
As someone mentioned already.. Yonin and Innin should be Tanking/DPS type stances.

Yes I also agree that making them undispellable would be great too. What Kincard mentioned in his post about fixing the NIN JAs seem like a good course of action.

As for the Ninja Tool Expertise... 85% is alot lol...MOAR doe NINs need MOARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ok maybe not more I didn't realize it was that high.

[dasva]

I'd be happy with ninja main losing the restrictions with /nin getting it like it is now

[Byrthnoth]

JP post today telling BSTs that Wyverns/Avatars were just raised to the level that BST pets have been at since October. I think he also says that they're going to adjust pet jobs in general in an upcoming patch.