Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Nyarlko]

New devpost:

JP1) Weekly devpost summary. Nothing new. Figured I should still post it even so.

[Tarage]

Sorry for the necro but I'm trying to understand what the final shields mean. I've seen some previous posts talking about HQ or break. Is it really a "If you use this enhancement, you get a higher chance at HQ but if you don't HQ you break"? That seems pretty horrible to be honest. One of my LS members thinks that the shield is going to allow her to guarantee HQ something every hour...

[Nyarlko]

Sorry for the necro but I'm trying to understand what the final shields mean. I've seen some previous posts talking about HQ or break. Is it really a "If you use this enhancement, you get a higher chance at HQ but if you don't HQ you break"? That seems pretty horrible to be honest. One of my LS members thinks that the shield is going to allow her to guarantee HQ something every hour...

That is exactly what it is. If you use the enchantment, and don't get an HQ, then it will be a break. The devs have explained this already during the Freshly Picked 35 broadcast last month in case you need a reference to point a stubborn ls member towards. :3

[dasva]

I mean for a long time now in a lot of recipes (read 99% of the non T0 recipes) NQs have been a loss. We've been begging for desynth recipes of post soa for forever to just get a chance to get 1 item back... so in like pretty much any T1 recipe it'd probably be worth it even if you didn't increase rate. You have no idea how many nqs I've npcd trying to make a HQ because couldn't ah them even for a huge loss

[Marootsoobutsu]

Sorry for the necro but I'm trying to understand what the final shields mean. I've seen some previous posts talking about HQ or break. Is it really a "If you use this enhancement, you get a higher chance at HQ but if you don't HQ you break"? That seems pretty horrible to be honest. One of my LS members thinks that the shield is going to allow her to guarantee HQ something every hour...

That enhancement, if it lasts for the full hour, is inarguably the most powerful gil-making resource in the game.

[Taint]

That enhancement, if it lasts for the full hour, is inarguably the most powerful gil-making resource in the game.

That's exactly how I see it. The first few people with the shields will be printing billions.

[dasva]

That's exactly how I see it. The first few people with the shields will be printing billions.

Assuming the game is still running by the time it's finished

[Mojo]

That enhancement, if it lasts for the full hour, is inarguably the most powerful gil-making resource in the game.

How? Given Dasva's recent testing, T0 HQ rate would only move from 2.93%~ -> 3.52%~. For SU3 recipes, this doesn't even seem worth it. The materials are expensive and the NQ do sell for a decent amount. It's only really good for some old cursed gear recipes, although these have been crafted to death. Many of them would still be dominated by Kupo Shield because of the tier increase due to +3 to both main and subcraft skill levels.

[Marootsoobutsu]

How? Given Dasva's recent testing, T0 HQ rate would only move from 2.93%~ -> 3.52%~. For SU3 recipes, this doesn't even seem worth it. The materials are expensive and the NQ do sell for a decent amount. It's only really good for some old cursed gear recipes, although these have been crafted to death. Many of them would still be dominated by Kupo Shield because of the tier increase due to +3 to both main and subcraft skill levels.

Because inventory space is a thing. Let's assume 3% HQ rate. That means for every 3 you make you have 96 NQs to sell (assuming 99% success rate). Over how long a time? That's selling the NQs at loss-to-near-cost. Maybe, if you're lucky, at a mild profit. So, let's say you aim to make a full EA set, a full Argosy +1 set (because diversity still matters), a Moonlight Nodowa, and some other +1-- doesn't really matter what. Your AH is now full of +1s. Yay! Money! Your inventory is now sitting on 13 bewitched Hauberks and Celatas, a few bewitched mufflers, breeches, and sollerets; not that bad. But it's also full of 33+ Ea hats, 33+ Ea bodies, 33+ Ea Hands, 33+ Ea legs, 33+ Feet, 33+ Moonbeam Nodowa-- and it's going to sit there for days, weeks, maybe months before it sells. If you're throwing it on the AH after your +1s sell, that's space that you could have been devoting to another +1, if only-- IF ONLY-- you had the inventory space to make more +1s.

Opportunity cost is the real killer. You can either be making and selling +1s (which should more than cover their own cost), at a steep discount to the +1 cost by recycling materials instead of wasting them on NQs, or you can be making and selling NQs and +1s, and clogging your inventory and AH with loss-bait, or you can NPC NQs at an even bigger loss-rate, but keep your inventory free for more +1s.

Edit: The other aspect is it really does mean that that +1 you make costs you less. A LOT less. You don't get the recoup from the NQs, but we can ignore those, because we don't really want to sell those, anyway-- we want to sell the +1s. If our AH just stays full of +1s all the live-long-day, those NQs were never going to get sold, anyway. This means not only are you not eating hefty losses on mats NPCing stuff to make room, the +1s you're selling are making you a ton more gil each.

[dasva]

Should also note some of this is dependent on what we can do with loss rates which I suppose is another round of testing I should consider though a good test that doesn't break the bank without actually just doing for profit synths might be hard and if I was doing for profit I'd have low fail rate.... fuck it.

Particularly what effect that will have on the ingredients that matter. I know it's been awhile since most of us have crafted for profit with less than a 99% success rate but back when breaks were more common for those that remember the ingredients that did break definitely seemed to have a bias that was often towards the rarer (at the time) ingredients

[Marootsoobutsu]

Has anyone figured out what the hell the Spicy Cracker, Windy Tea Leaves, Goblin Doll, cosmetics, ceramic flower pot, Magic Mart Flyer, Tama-hagane, and Autumn's End bit was all about?

[Nyarlko]

Should also note some of this is dependent on what we can do with loss rates which I suppose is another round of testing I should consider though a good test that doesn't break the bank without actually just doing for profit synths might be hard and if I was doing for profit I'd have low fail rate.... fuck it.

Particularly what effect that will have on the ingredients that matter. I know it's been awhile since most of us have crafted for profit with less than a 99% success rate but back when breaks were more common for those that remember the ingredients that did break definitely seemed to have a bias that was often towards the rarer (at the time) ingredients

I've always assumed, based on personal experience, that the priority/order of mats lost was the same as the order listed by the crafting npcs... Is this not correct?

[dasva]

I've always assumed, based on personal experience, that the priority/order of mats lost was the same as the order listed by the crafting npcs... Is this not correct?

I don't think it's been properly tested at all

[dasva]

Has anyone figured out what the hell the Spicy Cracker, Windy Tea Leaves, Goblin Doll, cosmetics, ceramic flower pot, Magic Mart Flyer, Tama-hagane, and Autumn's End bit was all about?

Huh?

[Tarage]

So do we know what the HQ rate is for someone trying to craft SU3 gear if they have all the best crafting gear in the game + shield? +3 seems nebulous to me.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Huh?

In the cut scene after you turn in the shield. This little random Taru comes out, and gives Mewk those things. It feels like it should be a clue, but I haven't heard what it's for. Especially the part where something was written on the back of the Magic Mart Flyer.

[Nyarlko]

I don't think it's been properly tested at all

As an example, Sheep Leather order is listed as:
1x Sheepskin
1x clump of Windurstian Tea Leaves
1x flask of distilled water

On a break, I'm most likely to lose the skin, then leaves+water, then all lost. It's possible but rare to get other results, and this pattern holds true for all leather as far as I can tell. My assumption and personal theory is that breaks have a tier system too, along with set loss chance values per mat, with higher break tiers increasing the odds of losing each mat, with "T3" resulting in a critical loss of all materials. This does not apply to desynthesis, but for normal synths, it makes sense to me.

[Nyarlko]

Also, don't forget:

NO FFXI TOMORROW

since they are doing a brain transplant on the system..

Just a heads up so we can all brace for the withdrawals. XD

[dasva]

So do we know what the HQ rate is for someone trying to craft SU3 gear if they have all the best crafting gear in the game + shield? +3 seems nebulous to me.

Not exactly but compared to the other T0 testing assuming you use food, both rings, shield + enchantment like 4.4%

As an example, Sheep Leather order is listed as:
1x Sheepskin
1x clump of Windurstian Tea Leaves
1x flask of distilled water

On a break, I'm most likely to lose the skin, then leaves+water, then all lost. It's possible but rare to get other results, and this pattern holds true for all leather as far as I can tell. My assumption and personal theory is that breaks have a tier system too, along with set loss chance values per mat, with higher break tiers increasing the odds of losing each mat, with "T3" resulting in a critical loss of all materials. This does not apply to desynthesis, but for normal synths, it makes sense to me.

I know what you meant I said I don't think it's been tested but that back in the day that didn't seem to the case. Like from the Before you ask a stupid question thread

"Item loss rate on break is approximately 50%. Moghancement: crystal for the appropriate crystal lowers this by around 5-10%. Moglification probably has a similar effect while still providing +1 skill.

Certain crafts have nearly-guaranteed loss components. Particularly cursed item crafts and key unstackable components for "elite" crafts, such as VClaw, Elemental Beads, Damascus Ingot, Damascene, Raxa."

[Hitou]

Also, don't forget:

NO FFXI TOMORROW

since they are doing a brain transplant on the system..

Just a heads up so we can all brace for the withdrawals. XD

It's over by 6PM my time so this will be one of the few maint that doesn't affect me. Assuming they don't eff something up and extend it.