Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Draylo]

Libra should have done that honestly lol

[JSHidaka]

so they need to release new content to allow upgrade the rest?... so we got already 3 delve areas.. so can assume we need something from them to upgrade the piece.. so thats why they nerfing delve?... -_-...

and empy revamp.. when? -_- ...

dear lord give them a break, they have been pushing out content monthly, and its not bad content by any means. I dont think relic upgrades will involve any form of delve. I think the hard mode shadow lord BC will do for that! Probably coupled with 2 other thingis which I cant think of. maybe its a combo of hard mode shadow lord, hard mode diabolos and hard mode something else that is attached to dynamis story/lore wise.

Relics 119... using delve crafting materials... yea.. fun...

[Damane]

Relics 119... using delve crafting materials... yea.. fun...

yeah fuck me and them... now i definitly have to go back to delve grinding again, luckily it can be 6 maned now!

[dasva]

Hit rate depends on your foe's AGI (as part of the foe's evasion), but accuracy itself doesn't.

Hit rate and magic hit rate work differently in changes to hit rate is linear with accuracy and foe evasion, while magic hit rate has a few different phases of rate of change that depend on how much MND/INT/CHR your foe has, and what your magic hit rate currently is.

Adding 1 DEX will always increase your hit rate by 0.375% (assuming you're not capped or undercapped), but adding 1 MND can increase your hit rate by 1%, 0.5%, or 0.25%, depending on your current hit rate and dMND is. Similarly, adding 1 magic accuracy can increase your hit rate by 1% or 0.5% depending on what your magic hit rate is.

Adding a listed magic accuracy stat would be near useless in the current game for several reasons:

1: The effect on your magic accuracy that MND/INT/CHR has depends on your foe, so having a listing of a stat that depends on what you're fighting doesn't make much sense.
2: Different spells have different natural magic accuracy bonuses and penalties (such as Flash having a huge bonus, and higher tier nukes being more accurate), so even a ballpark number would be of minimal use without knowing all these.
3: Mobs have different amounts of magic evasion for different elements and for different enfeebles, so even if you knew your ballpark magic accuracy stat and base magic accuracy of each spell, you'd still have to test each element/enfeeble individually to get magic evasion rates of a foe.

int/chr/mnd isn't necessarily a component of macc either. It can just be a part of magic hit rate. We just lump in there because it it's easier with our limited testing/understanding of it.

Yes I know how magic hit rate works as far as we know it.

1. Again no it isn't necessarily. For all we know it is part of the hitrate calc a 3rd term next to meva/macc
2. Yes and no. Flash is most likely similar to stun in that is has multiple resist states making it easy to at least partially land. Honestly I wouldn't be too shocked that that is the case for a lot (not all) of things that seem to have really good macc. That said it would make finding those specific bonuses/penalties easier.
3. Testing wouldn't necessarily be as extensive as you might think. It would more be like each element and each status not each spell.

Lastly it would be something. Something that would aid in what is currently one of the more annoying things to try and test in the game for a lot of the reasons you stated. You could also easily compare things with unknown macc values. Like rolls, some gear, some rumored foods, geo stuff as well ae other buff/bebuffs. It would also be good for benchmarks kinda like the old 320/120 deal. You could say hey it's easy to land <blank> on <blank> with this amount of macc and so much int/mnd/chr. Sure I could just add it that up myself but I can also add up my accuracy too and they felt like displaying that as well as att and def which we already got. That said I like Martel's idea. Perhaps even expand further a flat out magic and regular hit rates vs a certain mob

[Sechs]

So according to the dev note translations it's too hard for them to do magic accuracy because it usings skill and int/mnd... but it's easy to do acc because it totally doesn't use skill and dex <.<.

I don't think that's the problem.
There are several physical skills (club, h2h, gswd etc) and several magical skills (divine, elemental, enfeebling, summoning, blahblah).
For physical ones this is no issue because you can calculate your current accuracy going by the currently equipped weapon when you use the command.
You cannot do the same for magical skills because you do not "equip" one of them.

What they would have to do is listing macc separately for each skill. For physical it was split in 2 (primary weap, secondary weap), for magic it would be split into much more, you'd have: elemental, enfeebling, summoning, divine, blu, geo, wind, string and uhm... that's it? Since singing would be merged into wind/string and enhancing macc doesn't matter.
8 categories.
That's a lot, but it's possible. Just have checkparam2 for macc and checkparam3 for mab/mdam (even less categories there)

At least that's my view on the issue here, maybe I'm missing something?

[arus2001]

I talked about this before when more of a UI for such was the debate, but magic is also further broken down into elemental accuracy. This was obviously more prominent with the elemental staves and certain atma in Abyssea, but it's still a factor when wanting to best calculate a spell's potential. I guess you could lump JAs and buffs in here, too.

[Sechs]

but magic is also further broken down into elemental accuracy.

Oh right! This is a problem because of the elemental affinity staves and some random elemental macc/mab bonuses.
This affects mainly Elemental Magic, but also Enfeebling (each enfeeble has an element) and uhm... Bard songs too.
It wouldn't affect Geomancy and SMN skill I guess? Or Divine, since it's a single element. Blue magic too maybe.
><
Furtherly splitting into 8 elements is quite a mess indeed.

[Kincard]

All that being factored in, I guess it's best that they simply leave it as a simple sum value of gear magic accuracy like they were planning on doing and maybe a + value for each element. Players are just going to have to report their INT/MND/CHR/skill alongside their magic accuracy when they're describing content.

[Ligray]

There's a follow-up post to that TH post, go Kincard go!

[Vathris]

Thanks for translating Kincard, but i must say, your avatar makes a me tiny bit dizzy...

[Treize Kordero]

For the TH and Thief's Knife post, I understand what they are saying but why not create a quest to upgrade thief's knife? or even craft with mats? To completely replace the original knife and not have the original knife and an ilvl knife.

I dunno.. I don't think many really use thief's knife now as it is.

[Restrat]

You could then just buy another theif's knife

[Hirronimus]

If they are gonna add equipment hardcap then buy upgrading Thief's Knife to iLevel would make sense, because who in their right might would want to dual wield both knives while using other TH gear to meet the cap? I personally wouldn't sacrifice either Armets or Emp. Feet to be replaced by a weak weapon.

[Anomie]

Really, I'd love to see them abolish "treasure" altogether. And go with a progressive drop system.

Kill something 10 times, absolutely zero reason not to obtain everything it has to drop etc.

While details, would be something that need serious "ironing out" Something like, if you need 100x item, then you have to kill 100x 100% drop. Or if you need 10x, A MAXIMUM of 100 kills would automatically net the required minimum of 10 items.
Or if it's a rare item, let's say, Defending Ring (for an example); Records of Eminence subjugate; King Behemoth 10x reward; defending ring.

It won't stop bad players from being bad, it will stop gimps from "getting incredilucky" on drops(infuriating us all, right?). But it would certainly save some tension headaches and smashed keyboards. The only thing it would actually hurt, is people who like thf... while simultaneously freeing them from the bonds of "treasure hunting" and allow them to strictly focus on enmity control. Lowering SA/TA timers, updating traits, updating assassin's charge, etc, etc, etc.

It's win/win, and it's logical, so it'll never happen, but </2cents>.

[dasva]

All that being factored in, I guess it's best that they simply leave it as a simple sum value of gear magic accuracy like they were planning on doing and maybe a + value for each element. Players are just going to have to report their INT/MND/CHR/skill alongside their magic accuracy when they're describing content.

Part of what I want it for more than that is having some idea how much various buffs/debuffs give. It is so awful to test something like that which is probably why almost none of them are really conclusively quantified

As far as which skills to use could easily just use the ones that job. Right now there are 6 spots for melee but doing just a persons main skills would only take 4 at most. Could even go further and only ro the 2 highest from that job. Then if you want you could have any elements that deviate from the base which generally would be none and very few slots change that so should generally be 2 or less. Could even force it so that it only shows the 2 that are high/low so you know the range if you are really firm at not taking more slots than melee got or could just take att/def slot too or make another line or 2.

Hell simplify it even more and make a /checkparam <spell name> command

[NynJa]

If they are gonna add equipment hardcap then buy upgrading Thief's Knife to iLevel would make sense, because who in their right might would want to dual wield both knives while using other TH gear to meet the cap? I personally wouldn't sacrifice either Armets or Emp. Feet to be replaced by a weak weapon.

You dont remember the screenshots of people wittling NQ behe down with their TK/AA/RP's only for 30 minutes per kill?

[dasva]

You dont remember the screenshots of people wittling NQ behe down with their TK/AA/RP's only for 30 minutes per kill?

Yeah sometimes the goal was to use less dmg to get more hits in... and will be until SE releases some silly statement like hey btw guys bigger dmg hits proc more often

[Hirronimus]

That's 1 situation out of how many? You don't see people slowly killing T3s or Ironclads in Abyssea; or farming in Dynamis naked using only Thief Knife as the only means of damage. My point was, it's not impossible for SE to "fix" the issue with Thief's Knife and the explanation they gave has holes in it. They simply don't want to deal with it, so they find a political way of saying they won't do it.

[sfchakan]

Make Thief's Knife upgrade just an augmented Thief's Knife. It's still Rare, so you'd only have one version of it on a character.

Damn, that was hard.

[Damane]

the cap on TH is good, no more freaking Thfs meleeing mobs down fir 20 min that should be dead in 3 min