Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Priran]

Luzaf is canonically released from Odin's service (with the player taking his place) after you ask Odin to do so 13 (iirc) times.

There's a trust that'd take work. Would be nice to finally have a reward for the people who bothered doing that fight so many times.

[NynJa]

I think SE would reduce that number, or atleast make it immediately repeatable, without a reward

[Draylo]

I would actually not mind that, I've always wanted to finish that anyway. A little work for some of them isn't bad provided you don't have to wait JP midnights endlessly.

[Sechs]

The bad part about that would rather be the farming of the R/E item and the jp midnight waiting.
Uberly annoying.

But sure, I've always wanted to do that myself but always run out of will. I think I stopped like at 2 or 3 lol

[Kincard]

Well he influenced a lot of things in game but he wasn't the answer to everything lol. He was to blame for the Shadow Lord too IIRC.

That was basically one of the "twists" of WOTG, that it finally answered how exactly Raogrimm became the Shadow Lord- people act like that was out of nowhere but really, considering what we knew about Raogrimm (that he was really super pissed and ready to sudoku) and the established lore about Odin it made sense enough.

That's the only time Odin came up after anything TOAU related, so it's not even that he is to blame for a lot of things in the game, he's to blame for a grand total of one thing that's not related to the expansion solely about him and Alexander.

I know a lot of it is just people shooting the shit on the internet but some people seem to really make it seem like it was a lot more than what it was

[Sechs]

OT but while I overall apreciated the stories of ToAU and WotG, FFXI stopped feeling like beign a single, long, huge, connected story at the end of CoP.
CoP wasn't always told in the best possible way (many parts were confusing just for the sake of being confusing, like they didn't have very clear idea and decided to leave things vague). It was a lot of work from us players to connect many loose ends or confused parts, but in the end almost everything made sense and felt seamless with base story and RotZ.

ToAU was... ok I guess, but too rushed in the final part (or maybe too slow in the beginning?). I loved it but it always let me a feeling like... they decided to suddenly cut the story and reach an end with what they had in their hands. Dunno how to explain this feeling and I dunno if anybody felt the same.

WotG well, not sure if I can say the same things as ToAU (partly yes) but the issue there (other than the waaaay too much watering down of content and delayed release) is the huge amount of retcons everywhere.
People may apreciate their attempt to explain some of the old things, and to a certain extent I apreciated that too, but it all felt too... "unnatural", fake, retconned.
And I'm not talking about good retcons (against which I have no issue) but very hasty, superficial ones which do not satisfy me completely.
Also there was a huge issue with the 3 Cities stories and the main one. They were written by different people and... you can feel it.


It may be because it's not finished yet, but so far Adoulin story > WotG for sure and maybe ToAU as well, for my tastes at least.

[Sechs]

And if I can say another thing about ToAU and even more WotG, at least plot-wise, it's like they planned those expansions without a clear long-term plan for the game. Like they didn't know what would have happened to it, if it would have lasted.
It's like it was "ok, for now let's work on this, no clue what's gonna happen next, and IF something is gonna happen at all".
Somehow I get this feeling, can't really explain why.

[Seha]

ToAU was awesome to me. And WotG was very interesting, even if the multiverse thing is a bit eh everything else that surrounds that is really good as it ties to the lore(and Windy's story was great).

As for Odin I think he's responsible at least for the moblins other than Raogrimm and the Ragnarok.

[Byrthnoth]

In ToAU, you can either see a division of the idea-makers and idea-implementers or the point where SE exceeeded what they thought would be the lifetime of the game. Everything up through CoP fit pretty well in the old packet system, but ToAU brought a lot of weirdness. It seems like they had a big budget and a lot of ideas but were developing in a timecrunch with a little disconnect and just shoved everything in however it would fit.

Overall, I have not been impressed with FFXI's plot or pacing pretty much ever. Those problems are likely related, as the bad pacing typically keeps me from enjoying what plot there is.

[Sechs]

(and Windy's story was great).

Yeah, the only one with clear and meaningful ties with the main plotline.

[Spira]

I think SE would reduce that number, or atleast make it immediately repeatable, without a reward

I kinda doubt it. Each completion of the quest yields different dialogue, so while it is an arbitrarily high number of times you need to repeat the quest, they do fill it in with something different.

Additionally, i think it kinda defeats the purpose of Trust alter egos serving as achievements. The alter egos should be meant to incentivize players to do old content rather than to 'cut out' old content so that the trust alter-egos are easier to reach.

If anything the only changes they'd probably make are QoL adjustments and improvements, such as removing JP midnight wait times (tho not likely for an avatar related quest), improving the drop rate on the timeworn medal or whatever it is, and greatly increasing the rate that you get the KI from the Qiqirn. the sloodgy bullshit was the real pain of the quest. IF they decide to add high level Ashu Talif fights, and we get a home point there, even better lol.

OT but while I overall apreciated the stories of ToAU and WotG, FFXI stopped feeling like beign a single, long, huge, connected story at the end of CoP.
CoP wasn't always told in the best possible way (many parts were confusing just for the sake of being confusing, like they didn't have very clear idea and decided to leave things vague). It was a lot of work from us players to connect many loose ends or confused parts, but in the end almost everything made sense and felt seamless with base story and RotZ.

ToAU was... ok I guess, but too rushed in the final part (or maybe too slow in the beginning?). I loved it but it always let me a feeling like... they decided to suddenly cut the story and reach an end with what they had in their hands. Dunno how to explain this feeling and I dunno if anybody felt the same.

WotG well, not sure if I can say the same things as ToAU (partly yes) but the issue there (other than the waaaay too much watering down of content and delayed release) is the huge amount of retcons everywhere.
People may apreciate their attempt to explain some of the old things, and to a certain extent I apreciated that too, but it all felt too... "unnatural", fake, retconned.
And I'm not talking about good retcons (against which I have no issue) but very hasty, superficial ones which do not satisfy me completely.
Also there was a huge issue with the 3 Cities stories and the main one. They were written by different people and... you can feel it.


It may be because it's not finished yet, but so far Adoulin story > WotG for sure and maybe ToAU as well, for my tastes at least.

I attribute this mainly to the whole concept of 'working in the moment'. It's something that always occurs with projects that span the long term. Old content appear increasingly dated as new innovations are introduced with the new parts of the project that are introduced.

The single connect story does indeed stop at CoP because thats where the initial storyboards had intended it to end. FFXIs main story was basically designed with the first 2 expansions in mind. But the vast difference in the style of execution of the original story, RotZ and CoP leaves much to be desired. the first 2's cutscenes pale in comparison with CoP, as well as with character development, and whatnot.. but CoP also lacks much of the flavor that RotZ brought from having multiple new towns and many different regions to explore. Thats basically the problem of project based content - they had to integrate mobs, areas, story, towns, battle content into 1 package.

For the most part, they've gotten progressively better. ToAU and SoA are well packaged expansions that feature content that support itself and lend to the feel of their own story arcs. WotG was a lot weaker because it relied a lot on nostalgia of older areas, character origins and pandering to history buffs and military aficionados - and most of that really wasn't part of the main story.

As far as missions and story cutscenes go, I feel like the devs generally accept "this was what we could do with our resources, expertise and time back then" and don't look back too often with the view of changing it. Its kinda like art, you don't really touch it once its complete. After all, not like players can redo them. In this sense they will never outright replace the original story cutscenes and missions, but have added content that fill a more illustrated picture of what the story might have been if it were developed much later.

ToAU was awesome to me. And WotG was very interesting, even if the multiverse thing is a bit eh everything else that surrounds that is really good as it ties to the lore(and Windy's story was great).

As for Odin I think he's responsible at least for the moblins other than Raogrimm and the Ragnarok.

lol when you mention multiverse I instantly think of M:tG, cos i think thats the best example of how its being used in modern gaming stories. What I do like about XI is that the lore has been highly consistent with almost no retcons, and they always attempt to show how the new story threads tie to the old ones so that its not too disparate.

Odin is responsible for Raogrimm (altho we only actually know this for certain in WotG), one half of Ragnarok, Lady Lilith. The moblins' true deity is Alexander.

[Shenrien]

after you ask Odin to do so 13 (iirc) times.

Lightning confirmed to be coming to XI, Odin will command it.

[pancakesandsex]

Lightning confirmed to be coming to XI, Odin will command it.

Odin IS her summon...

[Anoat]

As for Odin I think he's responsible at least for the moblins other than Raogrimm and the Ragnarok.

If I recall, the Moblins set up Movalpolos because they were being "called" to the crystal by the "Dark Divinity" (which we are led to believe is Promathia in CoP story but later revealed to be Odin in WotG) and they thought that setting up near Gustaberg was the easiest way to find it. Turns out they were way off.

Also, it would appear the reason the Trolls are causing problems for Aht Urghan is because they were hired by the Moblins for reasons not really clear. Steal the Astral Candescence? Try to find Odin in the depths of Halvung? At least they are a bit closer than Gustaberg this time.

[Seha]

I think it's cause Megomak wants Alzadaal technology/the candy. Gurfurlur is basically brainwashed and doesn't really know what he's fighting for.

[Kyte]

I don't think he was so much brainwashed as he was getting clinkclink.

[Priran]

ToAU was a new, separate plot thread but at least it followed logically from CoP and was enjoyable.
WotG though? For an expansion that's basically defined the plot since then I have no idea where it fits in the storyline (other than "before Abyssea and Voidwatch") or why it happened. Plus it was really unsatisfying except for a couple moments where, again, Windy proved to be the only city with a decent storyline.

[Kyte]

I must have been the only person who kinda really liked the talking orc guy.

[Rocl]

Zoggbogg or w/e was boss.

[Ophannus]

I wish they expanded on the light ringer and gordeus a bit more. Both seem tied to Alexander(Gordion knot and the sword that cut it, read bout it on wiki). I also would like to know more about King Ronperre and how he subjugated Vrtra. I wish they expanded on the past more. It would have been fun to fight in epic battles like the second battle of Konchat or a dynamis-tav where you could fight the bsttle from the opening movie. Most ffxi expansions were way cooler in the trailers than how they were actually implemented. SoA trailer showed Naakuals to be Huge but in WKR they're pretty small. Tchakka in the trailer is like ADL sized but when you right him he's slightly bigger than a pugil.