REM Upgrades

[noodles355]

Going by the DPS rating on the weapon + appropriate ammo.

75 Gastra + Darksteel Bolts 60(50+51)/432, 14.02
75 Anni + Silver Bullets 60(81+47)/582, 13.20

99 Gastra + Adaman Bolts 60(81+80)/432, 22.36
99 Anni + Adaman Bullets 60(127+76)/582, 20.93

I had assumed (incorrectly) that this pattern would continue on with the iLevel update. I was waaaaay off.

iLevel Gastra + Achi Bolts 60(124+93)/432, 30.13
iLevel Anni + Achi Bullets 60(253+105)/582, 36.91

[Malithar]

Never kept up much with ranged, but wasn't the issue with Gastra less about it's DPS, and more due to having lower base damage and ammo damage, that the WSs were greatly behind guns?

[dasva]

Never kept up much with ranged, but wasn't the issue with Gastra less about it's DPS, and more due to having lower base damage and ammo damage, that the WSs were greatly behind guns?

I wouldn't say greatly behind but yes less ws dmg at least before soa. Though prior to this update it actually had higher base dmg then the guns but obviously bolts were lower dmg than bullets though prior to soa the difference between bolts and bullets weren't as pronounced. Anni has increased by 38% while gasp only 16%. Bolts have gained 53% bullets have litterally doubled. Barance

[noodles355]

Less ws damage, but higher ws rate and should be higher overall DPS (Anni has 150 delay more than Gastra). Higher DMG does not always mean better weapon if it comes with high delay. Think about Gae Bolg vs Colossal lance, or Blau Dolch vs Azoth.

Unless you're spend your time holding back, or TPing on something else, or otherwise making delay irrelevant, then DPS has always been more important than base DMG.

After the iLevel update though, neither Gastra or the new Bolts got the DMG boost they needed to keep it's DPS ahead of Annihilator. Annihilator looks like an absolute beast now. Higher DPS than Yoichi too. Yoichi will have Jishnu's though and I'm not sure how that'll compare to Last Stand with all the stat vomit and high base DMG now. On the flipside Anni also has wildfire for whatever magical utility may be needed. Annihilator really looks hot right now.

[Ihina]

So the REM stuff, I've been hearing that it doesn't drop 100% off outside delve, but it does drop 100% inside delve. Is that true?

[Alistrianna]

So far I've yet to see an outside mob not drop an upgrade part.

[Yeager]

So far I've yet to see an outside mob not drop an upgrade part.

I can confirm this. My LS and I 6 manned Chapuli a few times, then 4 manned Matamata. In all fights at least a single piece of REM upgrade item fell. We had two cases drop as well. And with regard to which NM drops what item, shit seems to be random from what I can tell thus far.

[Ihina]

Roger that. Just killed a bunch. Every single one dropped an item. 1/5 on cases that dropped 9.

[Kyreth]

So is Death Penalty that much better now that I've given all my shit away and quit 11 for 14? lol oh well!

Of course. That's basically how it works, S-E bases their improvements on how many people it makes quit in sheer frustration.

I'm wondering if the "pouches" show up on the high-difficulty BCNM's rather than Adoulin content?

[Alistrianna]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it seems you can start the quest if you had the Mega Boss KI's at one point but do not possess them when you talk to Oboro. I was able to start the upgrade process a few minutes ago and I haven't had the KI's for nearly 2 months.

[Jem]

Going by the DPS rating on the weapon + appropriate ammo.

75 Gastra + Darksteel Bolts 60(50+51)/432, 14.02
75 Anni + Silver Bullets 60(81+47)/582, 13.20

99 Gastra + Adaman Bolts 60(81+80)/432, 22.36
99 Anni + Adaman Bullets 60(127+76)/582, 20.93

I had assumed (incorrectly) that this pattern would continue on with the iLevel update. I was waaaaay off.

iLevel Gastra + Achi Bolts 60(124+93)/432, 30.13
iLevel Anni + Achi Bullets 60(253+105)/582, 36.91

Before the massive boost in bullet damage, the other thing in Gastra's favor was that hat recycle procs are a larger boost for lower delay weapons since it's static so equates to far more STP for them. It potentially made those really low delay xbows equal to Anni.

Then bullets got a massive boost like 2 weeks after Byrth posted that or something.

[noodles355]

I'm really not understanding some of the base DMG upgrades on the RMEs.
Like Arma/Anni both had the exact same DMG/Delay and DP's DMG was lower. Now Anni has higher DMG than Arma, and DP's is much higher than both. It's the same situation with Twashtar, Mandau and Vajra. Mandau/Twashtar were the same with Vajra lower and now Mandau is slightly higher than Twashtar's and Vajra beats both.

Did they really go "well the Empy are usable by more jobs than the relics so we'll knock a few points of DMG off"?

[Byrthnoth]

imop, they did it like this:
* Empyreans have an easily-activated, strong level 1 aftermath, so we're going to consider that when calculating the DPS.
* Relics have 2~3x damage procs that rate works out to be equivalent to 25% ODD on the first hit, but they can't proc on multiple attacks so lets call it 20% ODD.
* Mythics have substantial damage potential with AM3 activated (except Gastra/DP) due to the extra TP gain, but it's a pain in the ass to activate them so it is fine if they're superior to the other options with AM3 because they won't be feasible to use in many situations.

So Empyreans and Relics kind of fight each other for the same position (short fights) while Mythics are the best in longer zergs. I'm sure if you went through and calculated which weapon is the best in a melee zerg from 0 TP, you'd end up seeing the same distribution that I posted on the previous page until the fights got long (~3 minutes).

[noodles355]

I'm just looking at the DMG/Delay values. Or maybe they just finally balanced the values out. Seems like all Empys have slightly lower DPS than Relics, and all mythics have lower DPS than both. Except Death Penalty, which has +16DMG and -102 Delay over Arma which is insane.

[Byrthnoth]

And Kenkonken, if you consider its trait bonus. I do not know why they smiled on DP so hard. Perhaps it was a typo.

[Arthars]

those low Damage from REM are compensated by the aftermath/double damage

not to mention SE did said before that relics will be in the region of ilvl 118 to be used in most situation but not all

this also accommodates future contents for adoulin, delve for eg so that we still have something to fight for(ilvl 120 weapons) even after upgrading our beloved REMs and not make adoulin weapons die right here

[Hoshiku]

We did a couple megaboss runs night before last in morimar (brought a thf). We saw one crate and a bunch of single items. Tojil dropped single items both kills. Last night we did 3 runs without megaboss and no thf. We saw several crates. We also did a WKR yesterday. A few people got singles but not everyone and I think no crates. Curious to know if anyone has seen a box yet and if so where from?

[JSHidaka]

We did a couple megaboss runs night before last in morimar (brought a thf). We saw one crate and a bunch of single items. Tojil dropped single items both kills. Last night we did 3 runs without megaboss and no thf. We saw several crates. We also did a WKR yesterday. A few people got singles but not everyone and I think no crates. Curious to know if anyone has seen a box yet and if so where from?

I got one box off the WRK in the foret...

those low Damage from REM are compensated by the aftermath/double damage

not to mention SE did said before that relics will be in the region of ilvl 118 to be used in most situation but not all

this also accommodates future contents for adoulin, delve for eg so that we still have something to fight for(ilvl 120 weapons) even after upgrading our beloved REMs and not make adoulin weapons die right here

they are same level as delve mega boss weapons, they never said about "ivl118", they did say that Megaboss Weapons are the option for those who cant get RME's.. but in this case.. don't think is working as intended...

[Kidnoftle]

Which tier of box? If the HQ boxes only ended up coming from wkr I'm going to be fairly pissed lol.

[detlef]

So far I've done 5 WKR on 3 characters and seen 2 singles. They don't seem to be very common.