The Defenders (Netflix - August 18, 2017)

[Alistaire]

Marvel went meta with the IF reception and now everyone pretty much actively points out how Danny is a horrible Iron Fist lol

Spoiler: show

If they used the last of the substance to revive Elektra as the Black Sky how was Bakuto revived? DD season 2 ended well before IF

Spoiler: show

Did they show the substance itself at the end of DD2? Or just her in the coffin with the implication they were going to bring her back?

[Gredival]

So DD2 > IF > then sometime after both but before Defenders. They even talk about the places IF has been chasing them down, that doesn't all happen in a day.

Spoiler: show

Yeah but they revive Elektra relatively shortly after the end of DD2 (no body decomposition) which happens before IF even starts. There should have been no substance to revive Bakuto with. And it's not like they have personal stores since Alexandra remarks to the Japanese finger that if he dies hunting he can't be brought back anymore.

[Alistaire]

Spoiler: show

Yeah but they revive Elektra relatively shortly after the end of DD2 (no body decomposition) which happens before IF even starts. There should have been no substance to revive Bakuto with. And it's not like they have personal stores since Alexandra remarks to the Japanese finger that if he dies hunting he can't be brought back anymore.

Yeah I editted my post realizing that...

Spoiler: show

maybe they have something else that halts decomposition? idk, overall probably just a plot blunder...they had to show her at the end of DD2 for cinematic purposes, etc

[Gredival]

Holy shit Danny really is the worst Iron Fist ever.

Spoiler: show

The fist opens the door? Let's fight with the fist so she can dodge me and open the fucking door when I whiff. He's like the Donald Trump of Iron Fists.

[Alistaire]

Spoiler: show

Yeah but they revive Elektra relatively shortly after the end of DD2 (no body decomposition) which happens before IF even starts. There should have been no substance to revive Bakuto with. And it's not like they have personal stores since Alexandra remarks to the Japanese finger that if he dies hunting he can't be brought back anymore.

So found this brought up on the Defenders reddit and it got this response:

Spoiler: show

https://www.reddit.com/r/Defenders/c...ssion/dlt0lhg/

Same way Harold came back after being dumped in a swamp, unless they lose their heads, they keep coming back.

...probably also with the caveat that Alexandra talked about if "death doesn't come from the outside" it's also final.

...and speaking of heads rolling, I really wish characters in shows would stop doing quips in a way that ruins their surprise. Stick should've chopped the guy's head off then said "not yet", not the other way around.

[Gredival]

Spoiler: show

https://www.reddit.com/r/Defenders/c...ssion/dlt0lhg/

Spoiler: show

I sort of question this for two reasons.

First is that Harold became unstable very fast (killed the assistant after his second time back?) and it seems like the fingers have all come back a few times with seemingly no ill effect.

Second is that why would anyone, besides Alexandra, be concerned about not having the substance if they could all revive (sans decapitation). When Alexandra speaks to the Japanese finger she says if he died hunting he couldn't come back anymore.

[Alistaire]

Spoiler: show

I sort of question this for two reasons.

First is that Harold became unstable very fast (killed the assistant after his second time back?) and it seems like the fingers have all come back a few times with seemingly no ill effect.

Second is that why would anyone, besides Alexandra, be concerned about not having the substance if they could all revive (sans decapitation). When Alexandra speaks to the Japanese finger she says if he died hunting he couldn't come back anymore.

Spoiler: show

So they can come back from being wounded, but not from decapitation, but also not back from disease. And I guess if he dies hunting they figure whatever animal he was hunting would eat him? So then the rule is body has to be all there, even if it's cut into pieces, except the head has to be attached. If "the organism ends itself" like Alexandra was saying then the body's not really all there anymore, not in working order anyway.

[Malithar]

Minor plot point blunders, Danny continuing to be a terrible Iron Fist (but having far better fight scenes this time, at least), and the ending fight hip hop track aside, I loved this. It felt like each character got the attention they deserved and their stories were relevant for meeting up. If felt like Luke got the short end of the stick after his kid arch, but I don't mind. I think he plays out better as a supporting character. And wtf at no sweet Christmas?

[Gredival]

Danny continuing to be a terrible Iron Fist (but having far better fight scenes this time, at least)

The fact is that Iron Fist would still have been bad if Lewis Tam (the Asian Martial Artist everyone was whining about) was cast as Danny. The show runners are just better this time around and don't have to rely on quick cuts to obscure the action to disguise their inability to properly direct Finn Jones.

[Hirronimus]

As a New Yorker, I am offended that they did not use real subway!! That's not how they look right now

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Deftscythe]

The resurrection rules are either really inconsistent or poorly explained.

Spoiler: show

Why do the fingers of the Hand need the substance to come back when we saw Harold in IF and Nobu in DD2 come back without assistance? How did Bokudo come back without the substance? How was he able to shrug off 3 gunshots to the chest when a stab wound to the gut put him down in IF?

Also, yes, Danny continues to be the dumbest motherfucker walking.

[Hirronimus]

Spoiler: show

So the whole centuries long plot was about getting some magic Chinese bone powder? And the bones propping up the island of Manhattan is what would bring the whole thing down? Wouldn't Danny shattering the dome's door, which technically served as a capsule hiding the empty chambers where the bones lay, cause the whole thing to come crumbling down?

[Malithar]

The fact is that Iron Fist would still have been bad if Lewis Tam (the Asian Martial Artist everyone was whining about) was cast as Danny. The show runners are just better this time around and don't have to rely on quick cuts to obscure the action to disguise their inability to properly direct Finn Jones.

I don't think it's Jones fault at all. When I say Danny is a terrible Iron Fist, I mean he's written to just be terrible, not acted terribly. Not the actor's fault his character is moody, bullheaded, and makes absolutely terrible decisions.

Spoiler: show

So the whole centuries long plot was about getting some magic Chinese bone powder? And the bones propping up the island of Manhattan is what would bring the whole thing down? Wouldn't Danny shattering the dome's door, which technically served as a capsule hiding the empty chambers where the bones lay, cause the whole thing to come crumbling down?

Spoiler: show

This wasn't really explained, and this may be a bad interpretation of it as well, but I don't think the bones were actually under Manhattan. I thought the door acted as more of a portal that took them to Kunlun, hence the massive zoom out when they first arrived showing the entirety of the dragon bones. This was the dragon that Danny plunged his first into in Kunlun. It'd also help explain why Daredevil woke up somewhere else (though it didn't look like Kunlun), compared to being underground. No one talked about it though, and once the door was opened, the entirety of the area appeared to be the dragon bone area, rather than the cave + what was past the door.

The resurrection rules are either really inconsistent or poorly explained.

Spoiler: show

Why do the fingers of the Hand need the substance to come back when we saw Harold in IF and Nobu in DD2 come back without assistance? How did Bokudo come back without the substance? How was he able to shrug off 3 gunshots to the chest when a stab wound to the gut put him down in IF?

Spoiler: show

Removal of heads or internal issues (disease, organs, etc) seem to be the only way to put them down. Outside of those, they can continue to come back, hence Bokudo coming back, eating the bullets, Harold and Nobu having no issues, etc. The only issue comes from the bear hunting asian finger when he fell down the pit and got impaled by the rebar. He shouldn't have been dying from that, going off of all the previous info.

[Scythiroth]

I actually quite enjoyed this series. I could make a few minor nitpicks about music and some fight scenes, but overall it was pretty good. Definitely better than Iron Fist and Luke Cage.

[Ker]

Finished it, yea not great.

[Kanriel]

I just finished it and loved it. Overall plot has some holes and such, but that's going to happen with so many threads coming together and only so much time to delve into everything. As before the series, Jessica Jones was the best character the whole way through. And Luke did get a "Sweet Christmas" in there.

I like how they kept continuing with comic-relevant moves, like:

Spoiler: show

Misty lost her arm.

The whole thing felt really fast paced, but I think the last couple episodes slowed down a bit in terms of things actually happening. 8 Episodes was probably a good choice, because the speed made it pretty easy to get over some questionable plot moves.

Danny is still a child, and they outright state that many times. Hopefully he'll get good character development in his season 2. They hinted pretty heavily at the whole thing, and maybe now with some friends to help him and things seemingly settled with The Hand he can put his "mission" to rest and start working on being an adult, as his whole issue is he's basically a child warrior that misses mommy and daddy. He's actually the barebones aspect of a standard villain. He needs some major character development that wasn't possible while his mission to get rid of The Hand was active and urgent.

[Malithar]

And Luke did get a "Sweet Christmas" in there.

I wanna say episode 7 had a "sweet sister," but I never heard a Christmas.

Random discussion point, is Luke Cage the only one to not have a confirmed next season? Know DD S3, JJ S2, IF S2, and Punisher are all on the way, haven't heard about LC S2 though. I wouldn't be against him randomly popping up in other series as a support character, helping in one or two episodes, but not being as ingrained to the story as he was in JJ S1 or Punisher was in DD S2.

[Kanriel]

Maybe it was Sweet Sister, I could be wrong.

Pretty sure Luke Cage season 2 is confirmed for 2018. He actually has the simplest path forward. Shades/Mariah are still running some business he needs to get to. And we can see what happens with Misty as well. I'm most excited for JJ S2, but it'll be really hard to top Kilgrave. We'll see where IF/DD go for season 2/3 in terms of enemies considering how things finished in The Defenders.

[Brill Weave]

I'm on episode 6. It's alright. Daredevil continues to be the only character I like. The others just steadily get on my nerves.

[Gredival]

There was a "Sweet Sister" in

Spoiler: show

Episode 7/8 directed at Claire when they discuss blowing up the building and she agrees

Overall I liked it better than Luke Cage (which suffered from confusing tonal shifts) and Iron Fist (which suffered from incompetent show writing), but not as good as either Daredevil or Jessica Jones. Solidly in the middle of the Netflix offerings, which falls on the side of good.