Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X (11/11/2013)

[Ratatapa]

Offhand, all i90 jewelry + militia/strategos/warlock

yup you get like 280 mind on thm on that if cleric stance was possible 280 int would be shit

[Seravi Edalborez]

You're out over 100 MND from the combination of
-Difference between base MND of BLM/ACN and a real healer (~70)
-Weapon not having MND on it (assuming relic, ~30)

Combined with having a grand total of Physick for healing, it's just not destined to be unless having some fun / desperate party formations at low levels.

[Spider-Dan]

That is my point.

It's not going to threaten any real nuker or real healer, so there's no need for the arbitrary restriction on CS.

[Ratatapa]

That is my point.

It's not going to threaten any real nuker or real healer, so there's no need for the arbitrary restriction on CS.

If it's not Arbitrary why are you complaing that they don't have it?

[Lucavi]

If it's not Arbitrary why are you complaing that they don't have it?

Because its a strange area to place a restriction. One of many. Even I can answer that for him.

[Spider-Dan]

The restriction on CS is an arbitrary restriction on the normal rules on the game.

Cleric Stance is designated as a cross-classable buff.
All other cross-classable buffs can be used by 1) any class and 2) any job assigned that subclass.
Yet for some magical reason, SCH is the only non-CNJ/WHM that can use Cleric Stance.

It's like saying "Provoke can be used by any job with /10WAR, except THF." It's a meaningless exception to the rules, and it's even more puzzling because it doesn't seem to have a legitimate (balance) reason. Why not just give SCH an equivalent stance?

[Ratatapa]

I'm not denying that

I'm just saying it's useless to argue that a cross class is not available to THM and ACN while, if it was available to them would be useless

[Elcura]

Is that really a problem for people? It's not like the people designing the game come up with the rules or anything.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm not denying that

I'm just saying it's useless to argue that a cross class is not available to THM and ACN while, if it was available to them would be useless

There's all sorts of useless abilities that were made useful through ingenuity.

The point is that rules of the game normally allow for it. SE doesn't prevent BLMs from equipping Hawk's Eye, or CNJs from equipping Invigorate, so why can't PLDs and ACNs equip Cleric Stance? Let people experiment.

[Alkar]

I can't even imagine the amount of people using Cleric Stance on THM thinking it's actually good and gimping themselves in the process, let's leave it out. At least people seem to have the common sense to equip the good abilities either way, Cleric Stance is a completely different beast. That said this won't be the first nor last time we see cross class skills changed, when new classes come out they will mess around with them and job quest requirements.

[Kincard]

Eh, I dunno, you're always going to have people doing stupid things when you give any sort of choice but that's kind of the point of an RPG for me, so I think I'd rather them just be real lax with what they allow us to cross-class especially if we're on a class so we can play around with it. I mean really even as it is how often are you running into people that totally lack common sense and do things like set provoke+skull sender on their Conjurer other than to be annoying? I know some people that don't know any better might go "hm maybe the loss in INT is worth Cleric's Stance on THM" but if they cared to experiment like that I'm guessing they'd quickly find out it's pointless when their fires are doing way less damage.

[Spider-Dan]

I can't even imagine the amount of people using [...] THM thinking it's actually good and gimping themselves in the process

Could have stopped right there.

[Alkar]

Could have stopped right there.

You know exactly what I meant.

[Spider-Dan]

But that's the point: if you were trying to min/max you would never be on THM or ACN (or any class, really) in the first place. So why not allow classes to use the customization that supposed to be their forte?

[Jaybar]

What is the point of Cleric Stance for BLM or SMN? Doesn't it flip the mind/intelligence stats making you gimper in the process (because you have more intelligence than mind to begin with)? Or am I missing something. It makes spells 20%(?) stronger but is it worth it?

[cassiraa]

What is the point of Cleric Stance for BLM or SMN? Doesn't it flip the mind/intelligence stats making you gimper in the process (because you have more intelligence than mind to begin with)? Or am I missing something. It makes spells 20%(?) stronger but is it worth it?

It's the fact that it's arbitrarily blocked. I know XIV != XI but it's a great example of the design philosophy. It's like if you couldn't let a NIN join you to tank, or couldn't sub DRK to NIN, or if Ranger couldn't sub SAM and use Hasso. Or there wasn't any way to make the items for a fire resist set. These are all things that the community figured out were fun/effective and were possible/allowed in the design of the game. In XIV, the game is designed to disallow the community from making it their own game or creating their own ideas.

[Elcura]

These are all things that the community figured out were fun/effective and were possible/allowed in the design of the game. In XIV, the game is designed to disallow the community from making it their own game or creating their own ideas.

This makes no sense. It is never your game, you're playing their game and you're paying to do so. You're paying them to make their game, not your game. Did XI's bad design trick you into believing you could be anything you wanted to be?

XI might as well have arbitrarily locked out certain jobs from being subbed for all the practical good it did.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

This makes no sense. It is never your game, you're playing their game and you're paying to do so. You're paying them to make their game, not your game. Did XI's bad design trick you into believing you could be anything you wanted to be?

XI might as well have arbitrarily locked out certain jobs from being subbed for all the practical good it did.

Yeah. Silly stuff like NIN/BRD brings back some fun memories, but it was all only possible because the devs didn't seem to bother trying to figure out if x/y would break the game, and when it did they were kinda like "meh, effort."

On top of the player defined, de facto limitations, I'm sure from a developer standpoint it's much easier to just limit the combinations if you actually want to test them, too.

Edit: quoted wrong person but meh, effort lol

[cassiraa]

This makes no sense. It is never your game, you're playing their game and you're paying to do so. You're paying them to make their game, not your game. Did XI's bad design trick you into believing you could be anything you wanted to be?

I politely disagree, but it's a question of design philosophy rather than a "you're wrong."

I think that players should have choices. I don't think everybody should gear exactly the same and play it only the same way. I like it when there is a level of personalization and innovation that goes into how you gear / select your abilities.

Sure, there would be some black mages with skull sunder and exactly as many bad players as there are now, but from a design perspective, at least they have that choice.

[Jaybar]

It's the fact that it's arbitrarily blocked. I know XIV != XI but it's a great example of the design philosophy. It's like if you couldn't let a NIN join you to tank, or couldn't sub DRK to NIN, or if Ranger couldn't sub SAM and use Hasso. Or there wasn't any way to make the items for a fire resist set. These are all things that the community figured out were fun/effective and were possible/allowed in the design of the game. In XIV, the game is designed to disallow the community from making it their own game or creating their own ideas.

This has not answered my question. I don't care if it's "arbitrarily locked" - if it has no use at all for SMN or BLM then who - gives - a - fuck. All your examples used subs that had a use for the main job. A NIN/BRD example is more appropriate to what we are arguing here until someone proves to me otherwise.