Abyssea Blue Magic Spells

[Masamune]

Hello all

Nice composure test Yugl ^^

I'm posting a recent test regarding unknown mods for newest blu magic nukes, aka AcridStream BlazingBound Leafstorm ThermalPulse ChargedWhisker and EvryoneGrudge.... here and not in Magic thread because i need assistance to exploit the data i got (ifailed to find workable numbers).

Spoiler: show

Methodology :
BLU90/nin45 vs. WildRabbits Eronfaure (LVL1 INT6 MND? CHR? MDB0%)

All testings done without day proc.

The formula is basically the same one as for Elemental WSs, except fTP is constant and called M, and the fINT function gets a tier multiplier called T. (Same Aplha=85% also)

Firespit Test (for control) :
INT20% MND20% Mods, M=3, T=1.5
DMG dealt with INT125 MND117 MAB50%=861
Calculated DMG = Floor( (Floor((90+2 + Floor(Floor(125*20%+117*20%)*85%))*3) + Floor((125-6)*1.5)) * (1+50%)/(1+0%)) = 861
MATCH!
Note: bolded values are what i'm trying to research for spells below.

Mods research :
Acrid Stream : INT & MND
Blazing Bound : STR & INT
Leafstorm : STR & INT
Thermal Pulse : VIT & INT
Charged Whisker : DEX50%(known) & INT
Evryone Grudge : INT and MND40%(known)
Note: Since all those spells have 2 mods and 2 multipliers to determine, i'll need at least 4 damage tests per spell (probably more because of floorings allowing multiple possible solutions)
Note2: i didnot check if CHR impacts those spells, no equipment on blu...
Note3: this research only shows which stats affect spell damage, but doesnot say if said spell uses for example BOTH an INT% mod AND an fINT, only INT%, or only fINT, when INT impacts the damage.

Damage Tests :

Acrid Stream :
INT MND MAB DMG
125 117 50% 772
125 112 50% 769
102 117 45% 680
80 88 20% 490
68 77 0% 378 (naked)
100 100 50% 684

Blazing Bound :
STR INT MAB DMG
100 125 50% 589
86 121 50% 569
100 100 50% 539
85 68 0% 463 (naked)

Leafstorm :
STR INT MAB DMG
100 125 50% 886
100 111 50% 841
100 106 50% 826
86 121 50% 856
100 100 50% 808
98 68 0% 472
85 68 0% 463 (naked)
Important note about this spell: since it's plantoid type spell, this spell gets a correlation bonus, which also got enhanced from my Magus Keffiyeh+1.

Thermal Pulse :
VIT INT MAB DMG
88 125 50% 1083
88 114 50% 1050
83 114 50% 1044
88 98 50% 1002
80 68 0% 600 (naked)

Charged Whisker :
DEX INT MAB DMG
81 125 50% 1207
81 114 50% 1174
81 100 50% 1132
73 68 0% 673 (naked)

Evryone Grudge :
INT MND MAB DMG
125 117 50% 1539 (with HQ Staff)
122 113 50% 1323
117 107 50% 1285
100 100 50% 1227
99 107 45% 1190
70 77 0% 713 (naked)

Hoping someone will get more luck than me on finding those unknown 4 mods for each of those spells

EDIT: PM me if can't post, i'll redirect your results here.

EDIT2: i found this post buried in BLU Findings thread saying :
- EG has MND40%, M=5, T=2
- ChargedWhisker has DEX50%, M=4.5, T=2
- ThermalPulse has VIT40%, M=4, T=2
... those mods yield matching numbers. Not Leafstorm/Blazing/Acrid.

[Yugl]

I got those numbers perfectly for CW.

({({LV+2}+[.85*[0.5*DEX]])*4.5} + {INT-6}*{2})*(150/100)
({({90+2}+[.85*[0.5*81]])*4.5} + {100-6}*{2})*(150/100)
({(92+34)*4.5} + {94*2})*(150/100)
({567+188})*(150/100)
(755)*(150/100) = 1132.5 => 1132 

[Masamune]

Thank you Yugl, your example pointed me to a stupid mistake i made on formulas: i reused same one for all spells, while mods were interverted, rsulting for example to INT*STR% and MND*INT%.... /blush and corrected my post.
On other hand, didnot find matching numbers for blazing and Acrid. Leafstorm numbers are special since i tested with magis Keffiyeh and realized later one it had a correlation...

[Yugl]

The Leafstorm numbers are especially weird. I got matches for some of those numbers using fTP=3 and T(M)=2. For others, it was off by roughly 2-3 pts. That was without factoring correlation since I have no idea how to do that.

[Masamune]

and how much STR% ?

For correlation you just add +25%+2%(MagusHead) to M (the fTP).

Also, since i was wondering maybe AcridStream uses an fMND instead of an fINT, i made some Divine nukes on rabbits for following dmg values :
Spell DMGdealt
Banish 103
Banish2 308
Banish3 577
Banishga 203
Banishga2 462
Holy 373
with WHM90/blm45 INT94 MND110 MAB20%(trait)+18%(gears) ApolloStaff
Calculated DMG don't match if i follow wiki numbers...

WAR/war lvl1 MND rank=D yields MND=6 (if formulas stay the same at this low lvl)

[Yugl]

30% STR. Rena got that number in the BLU testing thread. Not sure what fTP and M she used though. And for correlation is it M or fTP?

[Yugl]

Ok rechecked the Leafstorm numbers:
1. All of them work with fTP=3 and M=2 (Whatever the correlation does, it puts the value of these at 3/2, so if you test on another mob, we can backtrack).
2. The only values that didn't work were ones with ~120INT+; most likely a dINT cap.

[Masamune]

The formula for BLU eleNukes are basically the same one as the ones used for EleWSs, except :
- fTP is constant and called multiplier M,
- the fINT gets a multiplier called T (which were = 1 for eleWSs, or 2 recently with 300+ eleWSs).

so M=fTP to answer your question.

[Yugl]

M and fTP are different using Rena's formula. Also, do you have any other mob stats that I can use to test? Rabbits obviously won't work, so we'll need something that won't have the wonky resistance. I've also found that given the risk of dINT capping (As with Leafstorm) that we should aim to conduct tests that do not have the chance of capping dINT.

[Masamune]

I'm thinking about redoing them on bees southgusta. i'm also thinking about cross-checking all current results on Lcolis, in hope their mdb don't show any discrepancy).

Rena's formula is not the same one as the wiki one O.O ??!

On wiki, formula is:
-for eleWS: [ (LVL+2 + ST)*fTP + fINT]*MAB/MDB
-for BLUnukes: [ (LVL+2 + ST)*M + fINT]*MAB/MDB
with :
fINT=T*(Player_INT-MOB_INT), T=1 for most eleWSs except recent ones @ 300+ skill, can be = 1, 3/2 or 2 for BLUnukes.
and ST=(STATamount*STAT% + ... )*Alpha, Alpha=85%

Did i misread something ?

[Yugl]

Maybe in principle (I haven't checked), but:

[({LV+2}+{Alpha{WSC*STAT}}*fTP) + (dINT*M)]*[MAB and all that other nonsense]

Edit: Whats the INT on those bees?

[Masamune]

With MonsterSTATs formulas, i found Bees WAR/- lvl1 with INTrank=D MNDrank=D yield INT=6. (if those ranks are correct, those ranks come from original SGobli table)

I would check their INT with SanguineBlade to be sure tough :s Firespit can work too.

Regarding multipliers syntax, i think they changed the word "fTP" to M to clearly reflect fact fTP is a FUNCTION variable with TP, while M is a constant. Same goes for the "tier multiplier" T used in fINT function, which were always =1 for eleWSs, except recent highskill ones(=2), and =1,3/2 or2 for BLUelenukes.
Personnally i prefer this "formulation".

[Yugl]

Thanks Masamune, I'll try to rack up some data if I find free time.

[Masamune]

Honest, i think SE should revamp the BaseDMG in their formula for ElmentalWs/BLUeleNukes, something that depends on WeaponSkill/BLUmagicSkill instead of level... i wouldnot mind if they have to lower WSC %s, as long baseDMG makes them more consistent to the point being a viable alternative to physical ones.
I'm very tempted to post that suggestion on their official forum, alongwith fact they still didnot make new blu spells since ToAU sortable... and lower that freaking 1min cooldown to 30secs after swapping spells...

EDIT: sure i know this would nerf drastically using eleWSs with brews, but honestly, abyssea is broken enough as it is w/o brew, at least this would force ppl stop being lazy/impatient and work out a strategy to kill their NMs "normally".

[Yugl]

Leafstorm on Bees, Rabbits, and Mandys. I found that the damage on the bees @ Windy was the same for bees @ Gustaberg. I'm going to assume all beginning mobs have the same INT since Multiplier (T) should make differences distinct.

STR      84    92    84    89    95    119   100   100   Bee
INT      70    70    76    75    100   100   100   100
MAB      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     3
Result   410   413   422   423   475   490   480   494

STR      84    92    84    89    95    119   100   100   Rabbit
INT      70    70    76    75    100   100   100   100
MAB      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     3
Result   467   470   479   480   533   551   539   555

STR      84    92    84    89    95    119   100   100   Mandy
INT      70    70    76    75    100   100   100   100
MAB      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     3
Result   438   441   450   451   504   520   509   524

I got the value!

Leafstorm: 30% STR, 2.75fTP, and 2M (T)
Monster Correlation (Known I think): fTP+.25

[Rena]

As I refer to them, fTP is the base damage multiplier that is normally referred to as fTP on weapon skills. While it doesn't make sense to refer to it as fTP unless it's something that changes with TP as mentioned above, it's still been used to describe the damage multiplier in WS which don't have a 'damage varies with TP' factor (examples: Rampage with it's 0.5 fTP, all critical empyrean WS, Wildfire, and plenty more). M has also been referred to as TM (Tier Multiplier) and is the multiplier of dINT (or dMND, dCHR, as appropriate). There is no fixed terminology, and I've used the terms I've seen used that make the most sense (to myself, at least) when compared to other calculations.

With regards to monster correlation, it is merely 0.25 added or removed from fTP. AF hat adds another 5/256 but doesn't cause any further penalties.

Leafstorm's dINT soft cap being at 120ish INT would make sense vs. a 6 INT target, as caps so far have been based on black magic ones, and Water II's soft cap should be at 113 dINT.

Edit: took way too long typing up this post, started before that edit, but yes, those numbers are correct.

[Yugl]

Rena, what methods have you used for finding the dXXX modifier? Just pumping a ton of that stat and hitting rabbits? Also, I like fTP and TM, lets go with that!

[Rena]

Just have to test a range of 10~15 INT (or whatever stat, not that any other one has been relevant since Mind Blast/Magic Hammer), and depending on the pattern, you can easily differentiate between it being the primary mod or a secondary mod, as primary mods follow a more predictable pattern than secondary mods.

[Yugl]

I have Acrid Stream down I believe

MND45%; fTP=2.079; TM=2; dINT

This was with MAB100 (Not +100), so it looks like the Magic DEF Down only procs after the spell has done damage.

Blazing Bound
STR30%; fTP=3; TM=2; dINT

Blazing Bound is NOT affected by MAB it seems. At least not when I tested with AF3+2 feet.

[Masamune]

Question: what tells you, in the case of AcridStream, which stat is the Primary Stat and other the 2ndary one ? or BOTH primary like Firespit ?

Also, would be cool if could regroup all data for those spells in one post in this thread and SUPPR the rest ?