The Official Forum fail thread: This game wasn't meant for alts.

[Serenseven]

Unless they did something to Self-Destruct's casting time, he should have had ample time to move.

[Cutriss]

Are you duty-bound during the map fights or can you get outside heals?

I wouldn't plan to take them for granite, was duoing peisteskin with the misses and then got broadsided Dynamis-Jeuno style with a bunch of slimes doing AOE paralyze.

[Raldo]

Unless they did something to Self-Destruct's casting time, he should have had ample time to move.

Would be amusing if they all approached from 4 different directions and if you don't kill at least one, you get super fucked.

Are you duty-bound during the map fights or can you get outside heals?

Does being duty-bound prevent you from getting outside heals? Can't say I've ever tried.

[Cutriss]

Does being duty-bound prevent you from getting outside heals? Can't say I've ever tried.

I think it does but I'm not exactly sure. I know that I've tried to heal randoms that were doing "something" and couldn't, I just don't remember if they were doing leves or had some other engagement.

[FHT]

It somehow never ceases to amuse me.

I don't do coil but I want gear that helps me do coil. Of course.

TLDR: I'm to lazy to read properly & I dissmiss others opinion cause I think everything is fine as it work well for me.

In FFXI you had Sea, if you didn't like it you could go to Limbus, which you could skip & go to HNM if you didn't like it, which you could ignore if you did not have time to give to camping, to go to Sky, which you could ignore and give full attendance to Dynamis..

Inbefore the "Yeah but Dynamis drop were gimp! and you had to get this in order to get that.. and FFXI had years to develop" Guess what, the person you're dissmissing is asking for exactly the same thing.

The only difference is the fact FFXI was back in 2005 & today we're in 2014, where "I'm sorry to point this out" but its absurd to be blocked to coil/EX in such a game with alot of space for improvement.

Throwing 2-3 random DJs here & there or recycling Tam-Tara to make it HM is unacceptable. Its just not adressing everyone's fun, especialy as we're going to run them hundred of time to collect our tomes.

These kind of poster aren't asking for an easy mode, they are asking for variety, not "Coil/EX or nothing!"

I don't do coil but I want gear that helps me do coil. Of course.

It was the main purpose of CT, which was on the right track but again they messed it up, ppl full iLv90 were in to farm iLv80 stuff.

[Lyall]

TLDR: I'm to lazy to read properly & I dissmiss others opinion cause I think everything is fine as it work well for me.

In FFXI you had Sea, if you didn't like it you could go to Limbus, which you could skip & go to HNM if you didn't like it, which you could ignore if you did not have time to give to camping, to go to Sky, which you could ignore and give full attendance to Dynamis..

Inbefore the "Yeah but Dynamis drop were gimp! and you had to get this in order to get that.. and FFXI had years to develop" Guess what, the person you're dissmissing is asking for exactly the same thing.

The only difference is the fact FFXI was back in 2005 & today we're in 2014, where "I'm sorry to point this out" but its absurd to be blocked to coil/EX in such a game with alot of space for improvement.

Throwing 2-3 random DJs here & there or recycling Tam-Tara to make it HM is unacceptable. Its just not adressing everyone's fun, especialy as we're going to run them hundred of time to collect our tomes.

These kind of poster aren't asking for an easy mode, they are asking for variety, not "Coil/EX or nothing!"



It was the main purpose of CT, which was on the right track but again they messed it up, ppl full iLv90 were in to farm iLv80 stuff.

The blocking we're talking about here is being unable to beat a fight to progress but wanting to progress anyway. I know it's a dismissive thing to tell someone to get good, but there are ways through the content. I've certainly bitched enough on this board about EXes and T5 and the like. Guess what? I beat them anyway. The post I quoted about needing to beg to enter Levi parties? What dimension is that? No one gives a shit if you enter Levi with "only" a zenith relic. It's entitlement, pure and simple. "I'm not good enough to beat Titan or Twin but I want the things that come after them."

Your analogy about changing from Sea to Sky to whatever isn't entirely accurate. It's more like not being able to kill Faust but wanting to fight Kirin anyway.

Edit: The OP wasn't asking for content. The sum their argument up with this:

I'm not too against the novus grind and I'm not directly asking for changes to this line of weapon but shouldnt there be even more options? Where's my up to date GC weapons and gears?

Not new things to do. Not new places to get them. It's "I want new armor and gear without raiding."

[lilbubbles]

We kite faust still, right?

[Kaixin]

TLDR: I'm to lazy to read properly & I dissmiss others opinion cause I think everything is fine as it work well for me.

In FFXI you had Sea, if you didn't like it you could go to Limbus, which you could skip & go to HNM if you didn't like it, which you could ignore if you did not have time to give to camping, to go to Sky, which you could ignore and give full attendance to Dynamis..

OK, fine. I agree, there should be like ten different i115 weapons and armor I can get in a variety of ways that mix effort, skill, time, gil, real money. Since I don't like coil, I don't like grinding the animus, I don't like leviathan, there should be an option for me to craft my way to an i100 weapon by turning in crafts for GC seals. That surely would not be a long and arduous process too. All for gear that I won't need to use since I'm not participating in 80% of the content. There should also be a major content patch every month.

Woop.

[Taim Meich]

RO is a huge battle against the numbers game too where you just output healing or damage until the mobs drop lol

Oh, I meant the transition from FFXI (almost 5 years playing) to FFXIV. I barely played RO, 2-3 months or so.

But besides that, do you, as someone who calls certain players in your group "good at the game", have any opinion that the dance/teamjumprope/mechanicsdriven fights are boring, too hard, or too unforgiving and need to be nerfed? Do you look at the fights you struggle at compared to your "good" teammates and think "SE needs to address this fight" or do you think "What am I not doing that others seem to be able to do"?

Nah, I'm just not as good/as used to this as they are. Some times I get tunnel vision when trying to reapply dots in Melusine in between Renauds and voice the raid, some times an awkward Renaud/voice timing with bad initial Renaud spawn makes me take a bad decision, etc. Or in T6, maybe I tried to throw a last dot and didn't run to briar in time, or some stupid mistake like that (not anymore, thankfully, T6 goes smoothly now), etc.

All in all, I won't be able to return to FFXI right now, as the level of challenge in FFXIV is so much more fun. And that's why I found that japanese blog post so surprising. The poster basically wants a tank and spank (with a little mechanics spice, like maybe T4 Knights reflecting magic and things like that, but very little) game, and, while some times it feels like you spend more time doing ballet than actually hitting the boss, the fights themselves are more fun that way.

Still, good FFXI players I'm sure had little to no problem in the transition. Bad ones, the ones you saw every day making horrible gear decisions, not using their job abilities, holding TP way past 100%, etc, still migrated to FFXIV, and those ones were the majority then and are the majority now. Nothing new.

[Serenseven]

"I'm not good enough to beat Titan or Twin but I want the things that come after them."

I don't know if anyone caught the footnote after the "Lord of Levin" 2.3 preview on Lodestone, but it says that Garuda X/Titan X/Ifrit X clears will no longer be required for access to Leviathan X and Thornmarch X once 2.3 is released. So at least one of the two floodgates holding back the rising tide of derp is about to fall.

Not all are bad, which is why I said in my post before I would say about 90%. Most of the people in my FC who were long time XI players like myself played TERA in the interim and we all had our eyes opened...Most come from XI with nothing else, though, and they drown.

I came from XI alone, and had very little trouble adjusting. I think the difference is that I was a reasonably-skilled RDM, and therefore always "busy", even in a slow game like XI. So now I'm "busy" dodging shit instead of managing Refresh/Haste cycles while meleeing pink birdies. I could see where players of non-"busy" jobs would be in for a rude awakening, though.

Does being duty-bound prevent you from getting outside heals? Can't say I've ever tried.

If it does now, it didn't used to, because I remember saving several players from their leve mobs with an outside Cure during 2.0's early days. But they could have easily changed it at some point.

[Lyall]

I caught it. I'm just not sure it's going to change much. Should be good for a few laughs when people invariably complain on the forums about Levi's slams being too hard to respond to.

[FHT]

The blocking we're talking about here is being unable to beat a fight to progress but wanting to progress anyway. I know it's a dismissive thing to tell someone to get good, but there are ways through the content. I've certainly bitched enough on this board about EXes and T5 and the like. Guess what? I beat them anyway. The post I quoted about needing to beg to enter Levi parties? What dimension is that? No one gives a shit if you enter Levi with "only" a zenith relic. It's entitlement, pure and simple. "I'm not good enough to beat Titan or Twin but I want the things that come after them."

Your analogy about changing from Sea to Sky to whatever isn't entirely accurate. It's more like not being able to kill Faust but wanting to fight Kirin anyway.

Edit: The OP wasn't asking for content. The sum their argument up with this:



Not new things to do. Not new places to get them. It's "I want new armor and gear without raiding."

Even so, why does it bother ppl so much? No one is going to lose sleep over it. The Soldiery Tomes offer that already, the Myths tomes used to, nothing wrong with that. Just a bunch of people wanting to feel special by saying "I have iLv115 gears because I did coil2 & you you don't." Which come back to what I said in a way.

[Lyall]

Even so, why does it bother ppl so much? No one is going to lose sleep over it. The Soldiery Tomes offer that already, the Myths tomes used to, nothing wrong with that. Just a bunch of people wanting to feel special by saying "I have iLv115 gears because I did coil2 & you you don't." Which come back to what I said in a way.

Conversely, it's a bunch of people saying "I want i115 gear without meeting the benchmark for that sort of thing."

[FHT]

Conversely, it's a bunch of people saying "I want i115 gear without meeting the benchmark for that sort of thing."

If this was happening, it wouldn't change anything for anyone, ppl wanting challenge/prestige woult get it and ppl wanting more relax thing would get it. If you want to stay in Coil, no one forcing you to come out of it, If these ppl didn't want to coil then they are welcome to progress their way in a more relax & appropriate activity.

But of course, you alway have the people who feel proud of having gears & these ppl don't want others to suceed "even in coil" because then they wont be the "special snowflakes" anymore.

"Why should this people get this gear if they didn't work for it?" Why does it matter? People are individualist by nature, but when its about trying to meet the tastes of everyone these same individualist start looking at others saying "but.. but.. but.. I have worked for that gear... why..?" Just let people enjoy the game the way they want & give them an equal iLv with 3 points of stats less, problem fixed >.>;

One another thing people tend to forget, we're all paying a subscription here, so there is no reason why SE shouldn't review their plan on locking people out of contents because their game design/laziness is making a huge canyon in the community.

Obviously people "need" to get better there is no doubt about that, but tell me honestly, do you think the players with a wife/kid(s) have the luxury to wait for their training PF to fill up?

I can see the answer coming "If they can't then they should look to play another game" and yes its exactly my point, this is the core of the problem, and its why subscription are falling too.

This is why you see so many thread poping on how Titan EX is too hard, how X is too hard, how Coil is too hard. No one want handled gears, people want to be able to enjoy what they are paying for without the frustration of restarting from 0 because the mechanics are unforgiving for a long list of well known reasons.

[BerenTebogo]

It's a problem when literally the only metric by which to measure players we don't know while recruiting for content in the game is ilvl.

Can set i100 these days for something and get people who are still wiping to Turn 1. How the fuck are we supposed to expect them to do Levi or etc? Just wastes everyones time.

"Only play with people you trust" Okay, then why bother having PF or DF at all?

[FHT]

Can set i100 these days for something and get people who are still wiping to Turn 1. How the fuck are we supposed to expect them to do Levi or etc? Just wastes everyones time.

But this isn't new, its like that since the PF day1.

[BerenTebogo]

Its the point of being able to set shit to i101 or 105 to get rid of them that matters. If everyone is i110 then life sucks.

[Taru Tacos]

The irony here is priceless, its is being condescending blabla.. I stoped reading here.

Isn't it condescending to try & dissmiss someone's argument saying what some people said in response to his post?

Isn't it condescending to say that the only people who agree with him are people that have not beaten T-5 / EXs and that its why they agree?

Isn't it condescending to say "Its working for me zso its fine?" ?

Also, its not one man speculation, its one man observation/opinion, he doesn't put a word in the mouth of the playerbase but his own which was supported by many other ppl posting how much they agree with him in the said thread, on top he got more than 200 thumbs up.

Also, isn't it condescending to go "Ohh whats wrong with ppl who agree with him?" when the person who said that cannot read properly the content of the OP or when that exact same person is totaly biast with their own opinion?

Thats just so stupid & selfish to go with that frame of mind, it scream ignorance and vanity nothing more. You might think people like the OP are whiner who contribute to nothing and you are totaly wrong because they give genuine & well phrased feedback looking at both side of a coin, which is something most players can't do nowaday. Its either "Its not working cause I can't do it!" or "Whats wrong with you? I can do it so you should be able too!" sorry, thats plain stupid.

Good lord, do you even know what irony is? Hell, I never said the people responding weren't being condescending. I said the OP's post that people were responding to was made in a condescending manner. As a result, I'm not personally surprised it garners that type of response. Obviously you have a fundamental issue with even recognizing the concept of putting words into other people's mouths, since you just did it to me.

I mean, seriously? He doesn't put words in other people's mouths?

For the majority of hardcore players, clearing mechanics-laden contents is actually quite boring.

Please, oh great clairvoyant one, show me where this consensus is that the majority of hardcore players find mechanic heavy content boring. I mean WoW was really all about mechanic-laden content and that SURE wasn't a case where people were drawn to the endgame, right? Oh wait.

If there was really such a clear consensus on something so glaringly simple as hardcore players didn't enjoy mechanic driven content, why would MMOs steadily move in that direction for years now? Do you really think you or the OP of that post know that much better than all of these game devs? Get over yourselves.

The instanced dungeons (ID) in FFXIV up to lv50 are, for the most part, well received by players as being interesting and fun to play overall.

Again, where is he drawing this from? If it's just his own anecdotal observations then it's not worth any more than anyone else's anecdotal observations and someone just replying with "no, it's just you" isn't surprising in the least. Personally, before the low level roulette I saw more people complaining about how boring the low level dungeons are and how they would rather not run the bulk of them again, outside of helping friends, when others that were still progressing were talking about which one they were on or asking for help with them. Now that there is the low level dungeon roulette rewards and animus requirements to drag level 50 players back in those leveling dungeons, I see regular gripes about randoming or having to do this or that leveling dungeon again.

Even of those that I know that did enjoy them (myself included), most enjoyed them for what they were: leveling content that was intended to be simple and a slow ramp up in difficulty. They weren't particularly challenging but they weren't meant to be. That doesn't mean that those same people are clamoring for this type of content at endgame. I didn't mind doing fates while leveling up but I sure as hell don't like the idea of doing them as level 50 "endgame" content for atma and such.


Honestly, some of his points are just straight up bad. He's hung up on the idea that mechanics are bad because they're something you memorize but his solution to just "make the bosses stronger" is even more susceptible to that criticism, as now you're just memorizing your ability roles and priorities which won't even change as much fight to fight and really is something you have to do anyway even with mechanics. I mean, look at his whole Changing the Battle System subsection. The idea that it's mechanics vs what he calls skill potential, which is really just executing your class role is just...what? The encounters are supposed to balance both in order to be challenging, so that you have to properly deal with mechanics while still being able to play your class well enough to put out the necessary amount of healing, dps, threat, and survivability. Sure, not every fight's tuning is going to be equal between the two and you're going to end up with fights where, in appropriate gear, the damage/etc requirements are not hard to hit if everyone is doing the mechanics properly (Titan HM) or the mechanics are simple enough that an organized group will almost never mess them up but there's a rough healing/damage/survivability requirement (Caduceus). He seems to be trying to make the argument that things are skewed too far on the mechanics side but even in his own analysis of pre-2.2 content, he only ends up with two fights that he focuses on as being too difficult mechanically to not get eased by echo and over gearing: T5 and Titan EX. Even then he entirely glosses over the fact that the echo does make fights like that significantly easier because, at least with Twintania, there was a high level of what he calls skill potential as well as the mechanics that can result in immediate deaths and wipes. Lowering the amount of healing, damage, and so on that you need to put out lets you shift more concentration to the mechanics and gives you more of a window to react to things and make up for small errors.

I'm not even going to get started right now on the whole "I want to be able to bring in as many people as I want to fights" thing because if you have even a shred of awareness, you should be able to see how complicated balancing anything gets when you throw that in.

Anyway, if something getting all of 200 thumbs up on the official forums of all places where there isn't even a thumbs down option is your barometer for something that speaks for the majority of the player base, then there's not much I can do to help you. That speaks more about yourself than the topic at hand.

[Taint]

Its the point of being able to set shit to i101 or 105 to get rid of them that matters. If everyone is i110 then life sucks.

But then you get the fuck you RNG aspect of Coil. I can do 6,7,8 as a tank but my ilvl is 96 still.

Coil lockout are terrible, ilvl lockouts are terrible. 2.1 had it right. People that didn't coil gained confidence as their ilvl increased. I'd rather have 300 a week tomes with gear that is equal to Coil. Tomes can then be used to fill in unlucky gear spots or to get BiS. Sands/Oils from CT is a step in the right direction but I'm not confident in how they will implement it.

[OWS_Tonx]

Watch oils and sand count as your weekly item lol