Warrior Fantasy XIV: 1.0 Strikes Back [WAR/MRD 2.1 Update Thread]

[SamanosukeShiva]

In worst case scenario, PLDs will just experience what WARs have been experiencing since launch. No one will pick you up even though you're perfectly fine for coil.

[Lucavi]

At the very least it'd have been 150% confirmed that Pld is outlandishly sufficient for all of the hardest content in the game. Anyone being overly judgmental after that point is just being silly, and not someone you should want around you anyway.

As of right now, you can't flip that script 100% of the time for all content. You can get fairly close, but its still:

A) Far more strain on the healers and less DPSing by them as a result
B) Still content nobody wants Wars touching, such as X2 dreads.

[Raen Ryong]

Just interjecting here that if you have Warrior tanks, it's wise to just avoid tanking two Dreads at once by zerging down the first one which drops. It's actually my preferred way of doing the fight even with double PLD.

[Lyltia]

Just interjecting here that if you have Warrior tanks, it's wise to just avoid tanking two Dreads at once by zerging down the first one which drops. It's actually my preferred way of doing the fight even with double PLD.

^ Seconding this; DPS kills rook while OT gets some hate on the knight/soldier/bug and starts running them in circles, then focuses the first dreadnought down. We stagger our two HGs to make it easy mode for the healers, but a WAR would be np for them I'm sure. No real reason to leave two of the most dangerous mobs in the instance up while DPS kills the trash.

[Spider-Dan]

At the very least it'd have been 150% confirmed that Pld is outlandishly sufficient for all of the hardest content in the game.

Just like 1.0.

[Sho]

It can be viewed as selfish and if it is so be it. Maybe I'm just not experiencing things the way that everyone else is but war was my first job and half the time when I was solo que'ing I did so on war and never had issues with people leaving because of that. It was because someone in the group not performing well and never about jobs.

Plus unless you're highly antisocial (granted there are limited times where people are on the wrong server to coincide with their RL schedule) but why don't you have some friends who are on the same time that you are, a guild, fc, whatever by now? I moved to a new server 1 month ago and I already have befriended 2 dozen people that i interact with just about everytime that I log on and I'm far from being the life of the party who talks to everyone I see type.

I'm sorry I just really don't get it, this all seems way blown out of proportion.

It's not selfish at all. In fact it's common sense really -- epic FCs and LSes will continue to be epic regardless of the changes. People panicking that PLD is going to be useless is what's making it all seem amazing. PLD isn't getting any worse at all, people will still be able to do all of the content as they should. Only now instead of a PLD, you can do the same content with WAR also/instead.

[Kincard]

What exactly is your point Spider, there's always going to be "GRR MAXIMIZE EVERYTHING" douches that don't actually know how the game works in every single online game. There's a lot of factors to how often you run into these sort of people, big ones I can think of are:

1. How trusted are the big "hardcore endgame" sites for the game? BG's probably pretty trusted, I remember when SAMs were thought to be amazing god tier in certain eras of XI and later when people figured out the game's mechanics bettererererer they realized "oh wait it actually wasn't", of course whether it was actually true wasn't important because most of the playerbase will play follow-the-leader and just go "SAM OR QUIT NAO"

2. What's the opportunity cost for replacing a sub-optimal job? In XI and XIV1.0 certain content could take hours to prep for and if you failed it would suck, so you take every precaution there is to make sure you win, therefore optimal jobs. In ARR it's like, "oh shit maybe I should take a 15 minute penalty and maybe my next run will be 5 minutes shorter thanks to epic WAR DPS", who gives a shit.

Complaining about job homogenization (and job balance, but again these WAR changes don't seem like they're anywhere near "PLD is shitall useless" tier) I can understand, but I thought the people around here should already be pretty jaded when it comes to jackasses in MMOs. I remember meeting some lady in Copperbell Mines DF the other day who was like a stay-at-home mom or something and just wanted to have fun playing a video game on the internets and actually tried being friendly with socializing and stuff. It was like the fucking Twilight Zone.

[Elcura]

What exactly is your point Spider, there's always going to be "GRR MAXIMIZE EVERYTHING" douches that don't actually know how the game works in every single online game. There's a lot of factors to how often you run into these sort of people, big ones I can think of are:

1. How trusted are the big "hardcore endgame" sites for the game? BG's probably pretty trusted, I remember when SAMs were thought to be amazing god tier in certain eras of XI and later when people figured out the game's mechanics bettererererer they realized "oh wait it actually wasn't", of course whether it was actually true wasn't important because most of the playerbase will play follow-the-leader and just go "SAM OR QUIT NAO"

2. What's the opportunity cost for replacing a sub-optimal job? In XI and XIV1.0 certain content could take hours to prep for and if you failed it would suck, so you take every precaution there is to make sure you win, therefore optimal jobs. In ARR it's like, "oh shit maybe I should take a 15 minute penalty and maybe my next run will be 5 minutes shorter thanks to epic WAR DPS", who gives a shit.

Complaining about job homogenization (and job balance, but again these WAR changes don't seem like they're anywhere near "PLD is shitall useless" tier) I can understand, but I thought the people around here should already be pretty jaded when it comes to jackasses in MMOs. I remember meeting some lady in Copperbell Mines DF the other day who was like a stay-at-home mom or something and just wanted to have fun playing a video game on the internets and actually tried being friendly with socializing and stuff. It was like the fucking Twilight Zone.

You didn't get the memo? PLD is over, it's 1.0 all over again. Doom and gloom. Woe is me, etc etc.

It's a knee-jerk reaction from people who are narrow minded enough to think that the extra DPS WAR brings somehow makes PLD obsolete. When in reality, people will play whatever the hell they want to play and it'll most likely be WAR+PLD as your tanks rather than just PLD+PLD.

Unless the extra 2 minutes you save due to WARs DPS is somehow critical to your enjoyment of the game, it isn't a big deal.

[Spider-Dan]

I just don't see how one can insist that WAR's lot in 2.0 was absolutely unacceptable while PLD's lot in 2.1 will be just fine, when we already have a clear example of what happens when PLD and WAR have equal survivability but WAR does more damage.

Every claim that things will be just fine because Who Really Cares About More Damage? flies in the face of what happened between WAR and PLD in 1.0.

[Lucavi]

So War has to be sub-par at what a tank is supposed to do so plds aren't getting ignored for not being as good as war at what tanks aren't supposed to do?! How is that a thing? Just make war a fucking DPS at that point, then.

I'm really, really not worried about that. Like, at all, and it has nothing to do with playing or not playing the job. I want tanks to be able to tank. That means tank everything and anything. Any content. War cannot currently tank any content, especially without being god-geared, while a Pld in AK/DL can easily tank double dreads.

Jobs should be able to do what the job is designed to do. War tanks couldn't tank certain things. That had to change. There were many ways to handle this. SE chose but one of many possible methods, and probably the easiest method, as opposed to having them attempt to wrap their Japanese brains around trying to properly scale Warrior's life-leeching abilities to truly become an effective reactive tank. They took the easy way out. Par-the-fucking-course for a company known to do this very thing.

I'm absolutely a selfish prick in the sense that I don't care about the plight of random DF plds who may get "ignored" because they aren't bringing an extra 4% DPS to trash content. Judgemental idiots are going to be judgmental idiots, regardless how small of a discrepancy exists between rival classes. You don't withold needed adjustments from classes because of a fear of the shitheads in your player-base being shitheads. You give the non-shithead players the tools to avoid playing with shitheads, which SE has already done. What SE has not done, however, is allow non-shitheads to tackle content with all jobs on a relatively even scale. They're attempting to do this, and many of us are very happy to see it coming.

I care about my FC being able to bring Pld X War without having to double stack classes because of either content imbalance or class imbalance. The whole ADS "having to bring Pld or Brd mandatory" bullshit is annoying enough.

@SD: I am willing to acknowledge that I don't have much of any personal experience insofar as to how absurd war may or may not have been in 1.0., but from all that I've heard from many friends who played many classes throughout the entirety of 1.0., the game was extremely lassies fare (pardon my French if that's incorrect) by that point. SE was essentially handing shit out to keep people playing until the servers shut down. I can't take seriously the "plight" of a particular class in what was essentially a dead game running.

SE has a lot more at stake in ARR than in 1.0.'s twilight months. There's far more people to piss off by having a TANKING imbalance - one that legitimately affects end-game content - such as this one, than a tank-based DPS imbalance that, at best, affects speed runs and fluff content. When SE introduces turn 6 of coil and X2 War tanks are mandatory because it's absolutely impossible to squeeze out enough DPS with even ONE paladin in the mix, I'll personally design pitchforks and torches for the both of us to patrol outside of SE's headquarters for being complete dumbasses.

I honestly don't think that's going to happen, though.

[Tymon]

Laissez-faire.

For what it's worth, a WAR in Defiance tanking a mob does not do an incredibly huge amount of DPS over a PLD doing the same thing.

[Lucavi]

Get on and tank WP for us, Arthur. >_>

[StUfF]

I just don't see how one can insist that WAR's lot in 2.0 was absolutely unacceptable while PLD's lot in 2.1 will be just fine, when we already have a clear example of what happens when PLD and WAR have equal survivability but WAR does more damage.

Every claim that things will be just fine because Who Really Cares About More Damage? flies in the face of what happened between WAR and PLD in 1.0.

It's pretty clear that PLD still have superior mitigation and better/more CDs - WARs have been brought up from no where close to somewhat comparable i.e. They do not have equal survivability - I can't see any situation I would prefer a WAR to a PLD to main tank a boss in 2.1, will it be possible? Yes. Will it be optimal? No.

[Hioki]

It's pretty clear that PLD still have superior mitigation and better/more CDs - WARs have been brought up from no where close to somewhat comparable i.e. They do not have equal survivability - I can't see any situation I would prefer a WAR to a PLD to main tank a boss in 2.1, will it be possible? Yes. Will it be optimal? No.

I thought that was the same issue in 1.0. PLD did have better mitigation it just wasn't needed due to the fights. WAR was the preferred tank because the content was nothing particularly heal intensive so more damage was always a better option. Am I wrong?

I'm a PLD main but I'm glad to see some WAR changes. I can't imagine that these are all the changes for WAR so I feel like people need to hold judgment until the whole picture is available and the numbers are in before they can toss a fit. What people should be doing is stomping their feet for a PTS so players can provide input instead of putting trust in developers to find the same uses as players(ex. Ninja/ Bard tanking)

I'm surprised everyone needs every tank to be able to do the same job as the next instead of creating a tank with the only purpose of off-tanking higher tier content but providing almost needed buffs to the group. A tank built for the sole purpose of being an off-tank that can still do all the lower tier content easily but provides all the stuff you want(higher damage, full group buffs, enemy control) in an endgame scenario. Almost the same situation with WHM and SCH where having one of each is significantly better than taking 2 of one type.

[Kiarax]

It's pretty clear that PLD still have superior mitigation and better/more CDs - WARs have been brought up from no where close to somewhat comparable i.e. They do not have equal survivability - I can't see any situation I would prefer a WAR to a PLD to main tank a boss in 2.1, will it be possible? Yes. Will it be optimal? No.

Whilst it is true PLD has better mitigation potential, WAR can have higher (spaced out) uptime, given how scripted every fight is it makes it so WAR will always be able to pop the 20% DR for every burst (Mt Buster, Death Sentence, etc). For that reason the difference will be entirely negligible as far as damage taken goes in most cases. PLD will still be a little better for Dreadnaughts in T4 but that's about it. PLD+WAR will still be the optimal combo at least, but I am a little bit saddened by them just giving WAR a shitload of DR and passive cure potency+20% making it effectively meaningless which you bring (short of silence, lol). I didn't want to see PLD nerfed but Yoshi came out and outright stated that PLDs were too strong and able to tank through stuff that was designed to kill you (stacked Cad/ADS), it seems silly to bring WAR up to that level rather than just making WAR scale a bit better and tuning future endgame encounters better.

[Therin]

Speedruns were a thing in 1.0 endgame but not anymore, so the extra DPS isn't a big deal. All of coil's enrages are extremely generous and speedruns otherwise are just for farming, so who cares.

We'll be continuing to use 2x PLD for the foreseeable future solely because of all the myth our PLDs have invested.

[Elcura]

I just don't see how one can insist that WAR's lot in 2.0 was absolutely unacceptable while PLD's lot in 2.1 will be just fine, when we already have a clear example of what happens when PLD and WAR have equal survivability but WAR does more damage.

Every claim that things will be just fine because Who Really Cares About More Damage? flies in the face of what happened between WAR and PLD in 1.0.

Holy shit, this is a different game. Get over it already.

[Tymon]

We'll be continuing to use 2x PLD for the foreseeable future solely because of all the myth our PLDs have invested.

This is it, right here.

This is amazingly nice for the people that already have their WAR geared up, and for the groups they're in that use WARs.

But for the people that are already using PLDs, or even double PLD, it's not going to change anything. It doesn't need to change anything. They already have the optimal setup.

[Carth]

That won't be a problem anymore in 2.1. CT gives ilvl80 gear, and the myth cap will be raised to 450. Turn 5 will still be the hardest content. Any WARs who were initially PLDs will have plenty of time to catch up.

[Darthvoltrius]

I thought that was the same issue in 1.0. PLD did have better mitigation it just wasn't needed due to the fights. WAR was the preferred tank because the content was nothing particularly heal intensive so more damage was always a better option. Am I wrong?

People said WAR was OP in 1.0 because it was the Preferred tank, but they fail to understand why. Here are some reasons:

1. A good WAR used to do about roughly 50-60% dmg from a real DPS job so the extra DMG was preferable for dungeon speed runs and not a 3-5%(or w/e it is) dmg increase from PLD like it is now.
2. Self Heals were GOOD and not shitty like they are now. (RIP old Steel Cyclone)
3. War had some Decent mitigation abilities like foresight/featherfoot(and others i just don't remember names right now) being way better than it is now. Example if not mistaken featherfoot was a guaranteed miss.
4. The DMG was needed for the 15min? (it's been a while) dungeon runs for that extra chest for Darklight loot and the Relic Speed Run Dungeons which required like 13 min dungeon clears so WAR was clearly preferable.
5. Enemy DMG wasn't high enough to warrant a PLD (except maybe SOME bosses)
6. You could switch jobs inside Dungeons so for some fights I remember doing WAR x2 because of adds that could overwhelm the party so Steel Cyclone's AoE helped a lot along with black mages obviously(the princess tanked by 1 war and the knight antlion by another i think it was? been a while)
7. PLD was always the mitigation king specially after 1.23 if i recall correctly
8. VIT used to increase our autoattacks (which u did a lot back then since you used to build tp) and STR increased our WS DMG iirc
9. PLD's increased their autoattacks by Mind i think it was (call me out if wrong) and they stacked Vit and some STR to help with threat so they did less dmg than War's
10. We used to Parry more often!(again we had better mitigation) because of our abilities/traits (Give us Keen Flurry or something similar like before plz) i'm looking at you lolforesight -.-

Like it's been said before. It's a different game now and endgame does not require speedruns for those extra darklight chests and the relic item from the 13min? speed runs. So quit your retarded bitching spiderdan, this is overall good news.