FFXIV PVP Discussion Thread: HAHAH SLEEP!

[Lucavi]

Fucking love frontlines. 20 matches in (7 first place, 8 second place, 5 third place), these are my thoughts:

All jobs, when played intelligently (I'll be assuming mid-to-high skill level from here on out) have their uses and are very effective:

Tanks: Pld and War are both incredibly useful at soaking up a ton of damage, kiting, leading charges into tight packs, stripping buffs from targets with their PVP moves, and needling casters for constant interrupts. With proper skill use, its not easy to peel a tank off of a target, and stupid and inexperienced foes can easily be goaded off of capture points, away from targets in mid, and even off cliffs. Cover works very well, and even shows a leash to help both people line up, and Plds can easily soak up lots of interrupt hits for healers when healers are on cooldowns of their interruption-resisting abilities. Wars are bullies and holmgang can be used both offensively and defensively, locking up critical targets for killing or saving others. The thick defense and large HP pools of tanks mean that needling them down as a bard isn't the most fun thing in the world, and tanks can even shrug off group or single-target Limit breaks when at high enough health. Tanks are also FANTASTIC for charging the sentries up at mid, and can solo them with ease. A good tank can also keep a stupid group of 8 locked up on a single capture point, freeing up time for their team to take others. Fans of Arathi Basin tanks (myself included) will remember fond things about this.

Ranged DPS: I'll cover bards first, and then the ranged mages. Bards work about as well as you'd expect: they can needle the shit out of people, chew up stoneskin and apply poison tics to a lot of people. They have great AOE and are very hard to both pin down and escape from if they're being stubborn. They're excellent for last-hitting the sentries up at mid, and can do a lot of AOE damage to sleeping or otherwise packed enemies. The songs are great for mages and for getting around. They're no Rangers of XI, one shotting people with slugwinder, but they're tough enough to actually take a fair amount of hits and get away from a bad situation. Silencing shot is also amazing, blast shot can knock people off edges, and they have enough stuns and binds with PVP abilities to keep targets locked up for a long time.

Blms and Smns are extremely good for killing targets - both human and PC - and can completely destroy a defending group on a capture point, as the mage LB is wide enough to cover an entire capture point radius. While they can be interrupted heavily of a DPS is smacking them in the face, with surecast and the PVP 10-second resistance ability (the name escapes me at the moment, and it can be upgraded to 15-seconds), they can still get off whatever series of nukes they want. Blms are better at controlling space and flow, as swiftcast sleepga is stupid nice, and flare can knockoff a good third of everyone's health, provided they can maintain distance. Smns are almost like magical bards; they chip like crazy, dot everything up and garuda is seriously effective at locking down other casters. A warning, though: Blms without their interrupts are subject for brutal harassment and it can be VERY hard to get space without assistance from others or a good swiftcast + sleep. I cycled through pretty much all of my jobs for a death or two and found blm the hardest to use effectively, perhaps tied with monk. I've seen enough blms blowing people up to know not to apply my own experience as the de-facto.

Melee dps: Dragoons are bitches, and I mean that in the good way. They will shred you with combos if you sit still for any period of time (easily done when stunned,slept or casting), and its VERY hard to escape from a good drg that uses jumps to bully and stay on top of someone. Single target limit breaks will absolutely wreck people (I was LB1ed as a whm with 4.6k health for 4.8k, and AOEd for roughly the same), and drgs (and monks) are very good at staying on top of casters to completely shut them down once out of cooldowns or stunned in a bad situation. TP isnt really a problem, especially with PVP abilities, so drgs can sprint around basically at their leisure.

Monks are pretty much the same: they're in your face, beating you senseless, but they take more time to ramp up to proper killing power. I also felt like it was easier to get away from monks, although they do have a PVP ability to instantly GL3 a single target, which can be nasty if they get the time to properly work them over. Mantra is pretty significant when paired up with a healer in a tight group, as well. I need to see more monks to get a more detailed opinion of them.

Healers: I almost feel like this game was made for healers. I honestly haven't felt this good healing in PVP since my days as a chloromancer in Rift. SE has given healers a LOT of tools to do their jobs effectively, but have also made it where brain-dead healers will drop like a stone. If you aren't using your interrupt-immunity abilities properly, you'll be lucky to get a single cast off, but if you do, you can turn yourself into a neigh-invurnable healing turrent that can keep a dozen people around up topped off. I played 19 of my 20 games on whm, and my best match had me healing about 42k worth of HP in a victory. Hots are your best friend as usual, but 2 unbuffed cure II's will bring anyone back up to full. Healers also have a potent instant Brez,a healing shroud that is floor targeted that enhances healing magic, a 90% dodge buff that roots them to a spot and disables casting (great for letting idiots waste their time on you while they get torn apart by your team), and can be surprisingly effective at manipulating space and the pace of battle with fluid aura (which CAN knock fuckers off cliffs to their deaths) their sleep and holy. Schs are just a nice, as the pet is mostly ignored by others, fairly hardy in battle and heals for a good bit. Adlo is as nice in PVP as outside, and a whm and sch teaming up to heal one another can keep everyone alive while one kites if needed.

Same deal with the offensive casters, though: use your abilities carefully, or you can and will be stunned and interrupted into a 6-second orgy of death. Use things properly, though, and laugh as 7 people try to kill you for upwards of 25 seconds to no avail.

There's a lot of depth to the game, and its only going to increase as people learn more about their roles in the game. I feel like its a mid of AV and AB with 3 teams involved, and I enjoy how there's no single winning strat. I'm excited for ninja now because reconnaissance is actually very useful as the draw distance is far enough where high ground becomes a premium, and its pretty easy for a single person to backdoor an unguarded node.

But yeah, I fucking love this PVP.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I didn't enjoy my first couple of matches as PLD and SCH, but that was mostly because

A) Always ended up in party B, and kind of stayed at outpost for like half the match so I was bored as hell.
B) Because most of the rest of my party was out doing whatever, we just died whenever another team got 5+ people to charge in.
C) Didn't have much Wolves Den experience as healer (and that I did have was pretty curb-stompy)

Tried a match where I just did whatever I wanted on SCH and felt pretty powerful and had a lot of fun. Wade into a fight and Adlo friendlies. Chase down a fleeing dude and finish him off. Solo mobs up in the middle because everyone else is doing whatever. Only been in 2nd and 3rd so far but I'm not expecting much from solo queue, the myth/sol is a great incentive, and I'm having fun.

Only thing I need to do is get used to having all these pvp abilities. I've been lucky in that enemy DPS are too busy tunnel-visioning their first target instead of hitting a healer (or maybe I'm annoying to target because Lala, either way).

Friday's fix can't come soon enough though. 71/72'd for like half an hour now.

[Tomino]

tank stuff

As a Warrior, what PvP traits would you suggest invest in first?
I'd say Actions first, because traits look less impactful unless I'm completely wrong.

Also, Defiance / Shield Oath are better options for tanks?

[Akiyama]

dare I say FFXIV finally got PVP right in terms of fun?

[Eldelphia]

At the moment I feel being a healer is almost pointless but I think it will improve when the people just trying it out move on. As a SCH I find myself behaving as an off-summoner and throwing heals as I can but the groups have no coherence and people rarely seem to want to move as a pack. Once the initial points are taken, things just seem to fragment into a frenzy of people doing their own thing.

Unfortunately our FC is split between all three factions and we're not huge so we can't man 3 x 8 man teams. Really enjoying the game concept though. It is nice when people work together and it's a pleasant alternative to 'grind' tomes.

[Eanae]

At the moment I feel being a healer is almost pointless but I think it will improve when the people just trying it out move on. As a SCH I find myself behaving as an off-summoner and throwing heals as I can but the groups have no coherence and people rarely seem to want to move as a pack. Once the initial points are taken, things just seem to fragment into a frenzy of people doing their own thing.

Unfortunately our FC is split between all three factions and we're not huge so we can't man 3 x 8 man teams. Really enjoying the game concept though. It is nice when people work together and it's a pleasant alternative to 'grind' tomes.

I wouldn't say its useless. Was running with some friends and we were dominating the entire map out numbered simply because of good heals and knowing when not to over extend ourselves.

Having a blast with front lines so far. Can't wait for ninja to change things up in here.

As a Warrior, what PvP traits would you suggest invest in first?
I'd say Actions first, because traits look less impactful unless I'm completely wrong.

Also, Defiance / Shield Oath are better options for tanks?

MRD > WAR just like wolves den. You want dps cool downs for burst damage.

[Eldelphia]

I wouldn't say its useless. Was running with some friends and we were dominating the entire map out numbered simply because of good heals and knowing when not to over extend ourselves.

Yep, when you can team up with a great group, it'll be fantastic fun. Had mixed runs so far but definitely enjoying it.

[Niiro]

re: Healers feeling useless in PvP

[Lucavi]

As a Warrior, what PvP traits would you suggest invest in first?
I'd say Actions first, because traits look less impactful unless I'm completely wrong.

Also, Defiance / Shield Oath are better options for tanks?

I went the meat-tank route on my War (why I didnt go mrd), basically rumbling in, taking a lot of hits and scaring people the hell off the point. To that end I use thrill of War and Mythril Tempest primarily. If I was DPS Mrd, I'd max full swing and just hack away at people with the intention of blowing up single targets. I think you need to pick the ones that suit what you want to accomplish out there. I don't think I'll be able to bully people as easily 3 months from now as I am right now, so at that point, I may go for an attack mrd style instead of a meat-tanking pitbull.

Also, healers useless? Has there ever been a PVP game where healers were useless? Use your skills properly.

[datkoops]

I've been having a great time in Frontlines as BLM!

An effective strategy for taking flags, for me anyway, is picking off the brave guys who will come out by themselves. If you can kill a couple of these, and they're usually tanks or melee, the rest of the team seems to fall pretty easily. Also sometimes you can just barrel in together on an enemy flag and hope you don't get targeted while you pick them off one by one, bravery pays off sometimes.

Firestarter procs are so damn powerful, it's almost not fair. If you get a proc, have your magical resistance down ability, and swiftcast for flare, you pretty much have a guaranteed kill.

And I have to say a GOOD healer is incredibly important. I played stupid brave guy and sat outside markets, picking off lone challengers one after another as my healer (completely out of enemy sight) easily kept me up. If you can keep people at a distance as a BLM, and have your healer an equal distance from you, you're essentially a super-bursty spear sticking out from a fort. Think I went 13-2 that match.

[BerenTebogo]

What range of marks from frontlines are we seeing? And exp?

[datkoops]

What range of marks from frontlines are we seeing? And exp?

I haven't payed too much attention to exp, but I know I've gotten at least 400 exp from a match, and I've gotten 760 marks from one match (think I was on a rampage that time).

[Lucavi]

What range of marks from frontlines are we seeing? And exp?

I believe its 600 for a win, 300 for 2nd and 200 for 3rd, although that could be wrong because I just got 495 marks for a 2nd place, so hmm. I'll keep editing my post today with the marks that I get for each match.

#1: 2nd place. 495 marks. 330 PVP XP.
#2: 1st place. 660 Marks. 440 XP.
#3: 1st Place 600 Marks. 400 XP.
#4: 1st Place 600 Marks. 400 XP.

Edited throughout the day.

[datkoops]

Minor complaint: I hated PVP so my rank is still only 14 (I've done somewhere between 10-15 frontlines matches so far), I bought my puppy dog hat yesterday only to find I can't even glamour it until pvp rank 34. NUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Seravi Edalborez]

At the moment I feel being a healer is almost pointless but I think it will improve when the people just trying it out move on. As a SCH I find myself behaving as an off-summoner and throwing heals as I can but the groups have no coherence and people rarely seem to want to move as a pack. Once the initial points are taken, things just seem to fragment into a frenzy of people doing their own thing.

I felt the same my first match, then started just being "the band-aid that moves".

Find a lone non-WHM (because those fuckers are impossible to kill solo)? Finish him.
Find a pack of friendlies getting hammered? Throw out Adlos until they wise up and start going for you. Then fall back and (hopefully) your allies will tighten the noose.
-Your meat shields all dead/run? {Run away!}

Probably not the best job choice for scouting (since it's much more useful in a group or outnumbering than alone/outnumbered), but I roam around a lot looking for unattended outposts and lone wolves.

If anything, being a healer in party B is slightly pointless because B is like the epitome of the "do whatever you want" party.

[Lucavi]

If anything, being a healer in party B is slightly pointless because B is like the epitome of the "do whatever you want" party.

I was just in a match where us as B carried the entire team. We capped outpost then split between outpost D and market support, then moved mid once we secured both. We won the 3 way fight for mid, capped the first nodes, the second nodes and the boss node, then went back to market to finish supporting. We won with a 600-ish lead, and were very chippy, stating that our backs "were tired from all the carrying".

It was a lot of fun. I enjoy B, not simply because that's where you actually get the PVP titles (from breaking shit at mid), but because its the one that offers the most freedom for people with brainpower. You can freely assist the flanks or secure your vantage point at mid. Its also easy to provide flank recon since you're up so damned high. Being a healer in all that's even better, as healers are basically field generals, especially when killing the boss add up top. "Stack on me!" for cure III bombs and everyone's lavishing you with commendations.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Fairy healing is just annoying for out-of-party people. WHM I suppose wouldn't have as much of a problem with that. I can adlo all day but unless I have actual party members with me my fairy isn't doing a whole lot. Could use a <f> embracespam but I try to keep an enemy mage on focus until they die/run away.

I eagerly await the day my B becomes a roaming band of death.

[Shenrien]

This is where mouse over is very useful keep your target on whatever you want, hover mouse over party list who you want to heal in your group or if you have people helping you from another ally.

[Lucavi]

Fairy healing is just annoying for out-of-party people. WHM I suppose wouldn't have as much of a problem with that. I can adlo all day but unless I have actual party members with me my fairy isn't doing a whole lot. Could use a <f> embracespam but I try to keep an enemy mage on focus until they die/run away.

I eagerly await the day my B becomes a roaming band of death.

I'd rather stay with my party because medica II doesnt hit anyone outside of it and that does so much work in there.

[Eldelphia]

I know healers are useful in PVP and I'm used to being a healer in PVP having done so in several games. I'm quite happy to cure/dot/snipe all the way. But you're not much use when everyone in your party scatters in 8 directions which has happened to me on several occasions. Trying to keep a party focused after the initial take seems tough. It'll improve. Perhaps I've just had some poor groups. Literally had people take one base and then scatter to the wind. I try and team up with 2-3 others if the parties break up and that works fine. I find no one gives a damn about the healers on their own team either. I have various pvp abilities (only rank 16 though) which all help of course and yes, I've sniped kills. Just prefer to have a pack you can rely on and run with.

I do reasonably well in terms of healing numbers and dps etc but just find it frustrating when people think they can solo anything... and fail miserably.