FFXIV PVP Discussion Thread: HAHAH SLEEP!

[Niiro]

A Regen will outheal pretty much all their DoT damage, all they got after that is Fester and their pet (which is basically another DoT).

[Rollercoaster]

I'm Maelstrom on Primal data server.

Campaigns: 200
1st: 97
2nd: 65
3rd: 38

I got a lot of wins with friends in a pre-made, but it isn't worth it now with the hour+ long waits. I used to go SMN but I would always get my ass kicked with people chasing me down and never getting all my casts off for a good Fester, but Energy Drain is nice to finish people off. BLM is awesome with sleep/heavy/bind support, nuking down a healer with Phantom Dart and caster LB.

[Jem]

Fuck the don't 1 on 1 healers. I'll sit there and do it all day if they're willing to waste their time with me, especially the ones who don't fight back. As a DPS I'm far more disposable than a healer and all the time they waste on me is time not keeping up teammates elsewhere.

[Kaisha]

The idea is if I'm holding a flag on SCH solo while my group is pushing ahead (spoiled by premades so I do this regularly), you're not taking that flag away from me 1v1 unless you're either a WHM or have an LB2 handy. It's more wasting the opposition's time since their group is down one member (I'm not going to kill you if I can milk you away from your group) trying something futile.

[Seravi Edalborez]

It depends what DPS you are though. As SCH if you let me get a single Adlo up and are dumb enough to not run from me, I will kill you back. DRGs, MNKs, SMNs, BLMs all have no chance (BLM can usually escape if they use both sleeps fresh). BRD is more of a fringe case since they can have enough range to escape. PLD/WAR are admittedly time-wasters but right back at them: they're wasting their stun power on a lone wolf.

Point being you aren't wasting that much time on me if you don't have friends coming.

[Niiro]

Anyone 1v1ing a healer is dumb, period.

Even if you have backup coming, just wait for them to come and you can all burn them down, start in solo and you're just wasting CDs trying to make a dent and building their resists to stuff like Stun meanwhile if you waited for others to come you wouldn't need them.

Fuck the don't 1 on 1 healers. I'll sit there and do it all day if they're willing to waste their time with me, especially the ones who don't fight back. As a DPS I'm far more disposable than a healer and all the time they waste on me is time not keeping up teammates elsewhere.

This is only relevant in a group vs group fight, but even then 1 melee isn't enough to keep a healer on the defensive, they're still gonna be able to heal their teammates.

If your other DPS aren't helping you kill that healer, your group sucks and you're just wasting time anyway.

[Wulfgang]

People really need to wrap their head around the fact that for all the damage SMN can do, it's all very easy to heal.

I used this example before but: if I ran around on MRD and use Fracture on every target I could my total damage would go up by a ton, but I would have accomplished dick all as far as killing anyone.

They patched Wolves' Den and broke the DPS slots into ranged and melee DPS solely because SMNs were so OP in PVP. I had a LV 40 twink SMN set (i40-43 aetherial gear + i40 triple melds) that I used for WD and I used to annihilate people; 50s were dominated by i70/90 PVP 3-man premades that just curb stomped people, hence the i40 twink. Frontlines has some different mechanics and strategies, but baned DOTs + Fester is serious burst damage. Given how people come in waves, you can typically have 6 charges ready for most skirmishes. The downside to SMN is you're fairly high up the "kill nowz" totem pole, probably #4 behind BLM and just ahead of BRD.

[Seravi Edalborez]

A big reason SMN used to be OP in Wolves Den is that they still had Miasma's Heavy component. From what I understand anyways. Also think they still had Resurrection for a while.

[Kaisha]

SMN was great when your PT size was only 4 and you only had a single healer; and before the rez nerf. But in Frontline where the average composition for A/C is to have 3 healers, good luck!

[kisada]

yeah. i look at smn as more of a support dmg class nowadays instead of the monster it is in wolves den.

if you're getting piled onto by other classes at the same time, those dots are gonna be a problem. but generally in a 3-heal group they're not much more than a nuisance. and since i have more breathing room to do what i want in frontlines i am far less worried about smn's as an immediate threat to my pt.

[Wulfgang]

Maybe I'm just out of touch with the times; have not spent nearly as much time in Frontlines as I did in WD.

Unrelated: Is LB damage included in the damage totals at the end? Guessing it is since I keep seeing mediocre BLMs near the top.

[Kaixin]

No, between a buffed pet, fester, ED, wither, aetheric burst, SMN are plenty scary. Just because Regen is a HoT and some of the summoner damage is DoT doesn't mean they equal each other and you can ignore summoners lol. did that damage just not happen anymore? Experienced summoners can break 100k damage easily, even in a short frontlines. Some of that is going to stick.

We love SCH damage right? Did we forget that SMNs are the DPS version of scholar? Underestimate at your own peril.

It could also just be a case that you've never run into a good summoner before, or just didn't notice their influence on damage.

[Seravi Edalborez]

It could also just be a case that you've never run into a good summoner before, or just didn't notice their influence on damage.

I would like to see one. That and MNK seem to be the most under-utilized jobs in FL. Not that I think MNK is bad, just most players are playing it like it's PvE still.

[Kaixin]

Yeah, plus I think it's hard in general to notice a good player in frontlines.

[Niiro]

No, between a buffed pet, fester, ED, wither, aetheric burst, SMN are plenty scary. Just because Regen is a HoT and some of the summoner damage is DoT doesn't mean they equal each other and you can ignore summoners lol. did that damage just not happen anymore? Experienced summoners can break 100k damage easily, even in a short frontlines. Some of that is going to stick.

We love SCH damage right? Did we forget that SMNs are the DPS version of scholar? Underestimate at your own peril.

It could also just be a case that you've never run into a good summoner before, or just didn't notice their influence on damage.

Any DPS can do great burst damage with all of their PvP skills ready, shocker.

"some of the summoner damage is DoT" is a hilarious comment btw.

And I'll say it again, the only reason SMN rack up so much in damage totals is because their targets are getting healed and not killed, thus allowing them to do more (ineffectual) damage.

[Jem]

Completely disagree on the 1vs1 healer part. If they are holding a flag then yes it's pointless. But plenty of times I have made a healer stray from their group to try avoid me or have to stop where they were heading to deal with me. At that point, them being missing from the rest of their group is far more detrimental to their team than me missing from mine.

Now granted it might only be stupid healers that do that but there's more stupid healers than good healers in my experience.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'll admit I have gone on 3 or 4 five-minute "fuck you, I'm the better healer" 1v1 map-spanning fights with another healer just because I didn't have faith in the direction the match was going anyways and/or didn't know any better. I don't know if that makes it a wash if both idiots are healers.

[Niiro]

Completely disagree on the 1vs1 healer part. If they are holding a flag then yes it's pointless. But plenty of times I have made a healer stray from their group to try avoid me or have to stop where they were heading to deal with me. At that point, them being missing from the rest of their group is far more detrimental to their team than me missing from mine.

Now granted it might only be stupid healers that do that but there's more stupid healers than good healers in my experience.

Yes, if the healer is dumb enough to run away from 1 melee beating on them then it's effective.

[Seravi Edalborez]

"We have to do something" and "We're losing, I quit" mentality are cancer.

Anybody in non-Primal (or in Primal, non-Flames) have any notoriously famous AFKers? We have one in Flames who puts an awful lot of effort (defending themselves in alliance chat, avoiding the issue of them doing literally nothing an entire match) into doing nothing.

[Kaisha]

We have one in Flames who puts an awful lot of effort (defending themselves in alliance chat, avoiding the issue of them doing literally nothing an entire match) into doing nothing.

And he's a complete dolt, so I've no problem smearing his name.


All 14 runs done last night. Figures the majority of the 2nd/3rd-place clears we had with our double pre-mades involved him in one of the groups.

And sorry to the groups that were missing anywhere from 10 to 16 people on Flames last night. Blame SE for being ridiculously slow at implementing basic MMO features such as alliance forming.


BRD Q- What's a good number of IR'd dots to place before you start focus targeting? I figured 2 DoTs on target + 1-2 on tanks for BL procs is sufficient enough.