[PUP] Attuner and Targer Marker: How do they work exactely?

[Sechs]

I remember some very old tests back in the ToAU days which led to the conclusion that Attuner doesn't really give +attack, but ignores a certain % of the target's defense, which gives a result similar to the one you'd get from an attack increase which is why it was mistakenly thought to give that for a while.
Similar for Target Market but about Evasion instead of Defense.
Also, I remember being said that Targer Market, working on evasion and not on +accuracy, worked for ranged attacks as well.

First: how can these buffs possibly work? I don't get how a buff on your pet could make you achieve the same result as a debuff on the target (-def, -eva).

Also, in theory these worked for level 76+ targets back then.
Nowdays it should work for 100+ targets. Bosses in Salvo2 should all be 100+ I assume?
How does this work with ilevel gear? Is a 115 pet (Eminent Animator) considered to be level 115 or still level 99 with some very powerful buffs?

[dasva]

As far as how it works it's probably similar to the ws that ignore some def... that said there really isn't anything math wise different from giving a percentage boost to attack than giving a percentage decrease to def. Though it would be for acc/eva I think but it probably just modifying hit rate directly? Idk haven't really read up on them that much. Though what little I read makes it sound like it is merely modifying the level correction penalities... but that that is rather hard to math out

ilvl doesn't actually change anythings level for any math as far as I know except for a few specific things like calling out pets and xp/check.

That said iirc they lowered the level correction awhile back anwayys

[Sechs]

So it's safe to assume they should be working in Salvo 2 for bosses at least (and likely NMs too) and for pretty much anything in SoA, correct?

[dasva]

Well assuming it is working on the level correct penalties like it kinda sounds (saw some testimonial about it not working on EMs) it wouldn't work on anything in SoA and probably wouldn't work on anything that wasn't at least level 101. Like single merit flashy shot does jack squat in SoA.

Would be pretty easy to test though. Find something decently high level in soa see if dmg changes

[Orcai]

would be interesting to see if these apply a noticeable difference in performance, as opposed to other static attachments. gear and new animators seemed to cover many of the issues these attachments were created to solve. the result of testing these has me curious.

[Sechs]

it wouldn't work on anything in SoA

Because of the different level correction rules SoA mobs have compared to the rest of Vana'diel.
Hmmm good point.
Anybody tested Attuner and Targer Marker in Adoulin zones? I usually keep them up out of habit.

and probably wouldn't work on anything that wasn't at least level 101

Uhm why that? If when level cap was 75 they used to work on anything 76+, then by the same means now that the level cap is 99 they should work on anything 100+ no?

[dasva]

When they did the whole no level correction in SoA they also lowered the level correction everywhere else. There wording was somewhat vague. iirc they said something along the lines of 2 levels above would now be counted as 1. I take that to possibly mean it's every 2 levels it gets the same amount 1 did, or it means they just divided the factor by half, or correction starts a level later but at the same rate afterwards. And I don't know if there has been testing to say what exactly they did. Probably because there is so little 100+ non SoA content for people to care about let alone good test mobs for it

[Sechs]

Ungh... even more reasons to know if Attuner and Target Marker are any use then.
If they work, they're powerful attachments.
If they don't then it's free space for something else =/

[Streak]

I had been ruling them out, assuming a level 117 eminent animator would make them invalid.

However based on this thread I'll give them a spin this week and see if I have anything to report. Because if they do work, especially in conjunction with iLvl boosted muppets, they should be fairly powerful.

[pancakesandsex]

I don't think level correction matters for attuner and target marker. It was my understanding that they simply allow your robot to ignore a certain percentage defense or evasion. Like a debuff that only applies to hits from the auto. It's useless on lower level content because you're likely capped accuracy and evasion, not due to level correction.

[dasva]

I only thought that since what I read said it doesn't work on anything EM and under for att one. And you shouldn't be capped on EMs without something. Regardless would be really easy to test in SoA for anyone that has a ranged puppet and the attachments

[Sechs]

I don't think level correction matters for attuner and target marker. It was my understanding that they simply allow your robot to ignore a certain percentage defense or evasion. Like a debuff that only applies to hits from the auto. It's useless on lower level content because you're likely capped accuracy and evasion, not due to level correction.

Early tests in ToAU showed that they only activated against targets who were Tough or higher (i.e. lv 76+).
Now... we could say that those tests were moot. As far as I know it could have been someone who randomly said that and everybody followed like sheeps without feeling the need for further tests.

This is one of the things I wish SE could give us a correct answer sigh.
But yeah, if they work they should be both fairly powerful. Especially Target Marker would be a nice way to give your pet racc with a thunder attachment instead of a wind one, without any negative counterbalance at all.

If they don't work then we better know it for sure because it would be two gained spots to equip some different attachments in those slots.

[pancakesandsex]

Early tests in ToAU showed that they only activated against targets who were Tough or higher (i.e. lv 76+).
Now... we could say that those tests were moot. As far as I know it could have been someone who randomly said that and everybody followed like sheeps without feeling the need for further tests.

This is one of the things I wish SE could give us a correct answer sigh.
But yeah, if they work they should be both fairly powerful. Especially Target Marker would be a nice way to give your pet racc with a thunder attachment instead of a wind one, without any negative counterbalance at all.

If they don't work then we better know it for sure because it would be two gained spots to equip some different attachments in those slots.

There was a dev post a while ago that gave exact values for how attachments worked with 0-3 maneuvers. That's where we got this data:

No Maneuver 5% enemy evasion ignored
1 Maneuver 15% enemy evasion ignored
2 Maneuvers 30% enemy evasion ignored
3 Maneuvers 45% enemy evasion ignored

I feel like if there was an actual level difference activation requirement, it would have been noted at that point. As you get closer in level -45% evasion just means you're still capped on accuracy, so of course it's not going to seem like it's doing anything. Same with the defence / attack relationship.

[Sechs]

I remember that dev post long time ago touching some attachments. I didn't remember that it went into details for those 2 as well.
Do you have a link to the original one by any chance?

[Streak]

Tension II+Attuner is parsing slightly higher than Tension I+II in Salvage II. It's especially noticeable in WS damage from Armour Shatterer which is hovering around 4200 rather than 3900 previously. I don't have a ton of data still. I don't know if there are any spreadsheets that would help do the comparisons.

[Podginator]

Sorry for the bump, but I'm just curious as to whether or not anymore testing has been done with this?

For instance, is the boost dependent on actual level or item level?

[Trumpy]

/checkparam <pet> might help with this any?

[Podginator]

Equipping Attuner and testing against another level 100 toad produced the same results (Assuming, then, that the Attuner doesn't work in Adoulin?). Reports from BG seem to imply that it worked in Salvage II, so I assume that it did work on level corrections. Alternately, it could be that Divinator and the likes raise the automatons level and that could be making the attuner not activate. Either way though this is disspaointing, as it essentially makes Attuner and Target Marker useless in their current implementation.

It isn't as though alterating them so that they just remove the level aspect all together would break them, especially given the ilvl automatons basically capping autos params of mobs <99.

Just posted on ffxiah, any attack boost would be noticed on Armor Shatterer, so it seems that they don't work. Which is a huge dissapointment.

[Sechs]

For instance, is the boost dependent on actual level or item level?

Someone here made an hypothesys, which personally makes a lot of sense to me.
The "high level" thing is just an arbitrary and confusion-generating example, just something worded wrong if you want.

Attuner just ignores X% defense and Target Marker ignores X% evasion, period.
If you fight low level stuff it's much likely (because of level correction and because of simple stats difference) that there will be nothing to ignore regarding def/eva, hence equipping the addons will make no difference.
Whereas it's much more likely that on same/higher level mobs, there will be something to ignore which means the attachments will produce noticeable results.

Just an hypothesys, but makes more sense than thinking SE put a hidden "switch" that turns the attachments off when you're under a certain level.