[Guide] Black Mage - Because, heavy deeps, that's why.

[Grey Jorildyn]

So I've been staring at that guy's charts this morning and am really no closer to my basic question: What is best in slot?

Heck, just answer me this--should a BLM build for DET, CRIT, or Both? Seems be leaning toward CRIT lately but a link to a BiS would be fine at this point.

Thanks.

[Bikpik]

Is this what you're talking about?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TDVkM1E#gid=67

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yeah, except I didn't see this tab somehow. I saw the standalone chart.

This is a CRIT build and should aim for that then?

[OWS_Tonx]

yeah, I believe the Crit/SS is wha he has listed as BiS

[lilbubbles]

There is some ... disagreement on what bis is, what the weights are, and if it even matters. There are multiple groups of people claiming, with authority, what bis is. Some are even saying the i90 crafted belt is bis!

I feel like in practice they give waaay to much weight to spell speed.

Just go to http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/ and use the bis solver and look at the data yourself. Try using your own weights or layouts.

What you will find is, there are not that many options when you're shooting for a given accuracy cap. The differences in any gear sets with 470 acc will be a wash at best.

The real question is how do you plan on getting to i110 while maintaining your accuracy AND planning to have enough accuracy for the next iteration of coil. MOST IMPORTANTLY, would you use a sand to upgrade a piece you already had allagan for, to get less than a 1 dps increase when you could use it to get one of your off classes closer to i110?

My advice is to focus on your ilevel and accuracy only. If sands become a weekly drop from ct2 or something, I'll give a shit. I'm just gonna work with what drops.

[haroldsaxon]

Bah, can't post a link with less than 10 URLs and lost my post; but i've got a spreadsheet containing the damage values for each piece of equipment and the rankings of each of the acc pieces. Send me a PM if anyone wants it.

Generally though, make sure you are at the acc cap for the content you have, you know the mechanics and you have the best i-level weapon you can get. If you have them, you should be fine for the content. And bubbles is completely correct that you have to work with what drops you get. The BIS is meaningless if you don't have the high allagan drops or the sands/oils.

With regards to the Belt; Its pretty damn awesome when fully melded out. Its slightly below the high allagan belt in terms of damage, but the accuracy gain is fantastic; its the best ratio of damage loss for accuracy gain (in both Easymode's and Puro's stat weights). But, if you don't have the gil to sink into it, then its probably not an option.

A point about stat weights; Easymode and Puro's rank stuff, with regards to raw damage, in the same order in each slot (its easy to tell the good pieces). However, with regards to losing damage to get acc, they differ on some rankings. Also, while Easymode says Det is the best, you don't often get as much det as crit/ss/acc on gear, meaning you end up losing out if you stack det. I personally like spellspeed and crit (if i have a 1 for 1 option between them, I tend to go with spellspeed for my own personal preference - but i'd only go for spellspeed over crit if its a 1:1 trade off. If not, go for whichever is highest).

But at the end of the day, knowing your rotation, reacting to what happens in a fight, knowing the mechanics, reaching the acc cap and having a high i-level weapon will get you through fights, at least on your end.

P.s. Hai Bubbles ^.^

[Shaano]

Where are people getting idea sands are going to be outside of second coil? I must of missed something or everyone is assuming at the same time.

[lilbubbles]

Where are people getting idea sands are going to be outside of second coil? I must of missed something or everyone is assuming at the same time.

I don't think they are per se, but if nothing else when coil 3 comes out and coil 2 is repeatable we will be able to get as many sands as we want. At which point, i'll care about best possible gear per slot going into coil 3

[StUfF]

Is this what you're talking about?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TDVkM1E#gid=67

Purostrider's calculator/maths were heavily off and only recently has he started looking at correctly some of his assumptions. He assumed 1INT = 5DET from testing naked/gearless and assuming that the scaling was purely linear from 1-2 data sets, until recently when he was convinced to do further testing.

EasymodeX did some potency/caster formulae stuff in a forum thread with a decent amount of data which came up with total different weightings (DET weighted heaviest, while purostrider weighted DET lowest). I don't play BLM so I didn't investigate which was more "correct" but I would trust EMX based on his other work on DRG/MNK etc.

There's also a French spreadsheet calculator somewhere which I can't read so I didn't bother looking at.

[haroldsaxon]

Purostrider's calculator/maths were heavily off and only recently has he started looking at correctly some of his assumptions. He assumed 1INT = 5DET from testing naked/gearless and assuming that the scaling was purely linear from 1-2 data sets, until recently when he was convinced to do further testing.

EasymodeX did some potency/caster formulae stuff in a forum thread with a decent amount of data which came up with total different weightings (DET weighted heaviest, while purostrider weighted DET lowest). I don't play BLM so I didn't investigate which was more "correct" but I would trust EMX based on his other work on DRG/MNK etc.

There's also a French spreadsheet calculator somewhere which I can't read so I didn't bother looking at.

His 1INT=5Det is backed up by his recent ingame data tests too. However, it doesn't mean that the stat weight is 0.2; because as you get higher levels of crit and spellspeed, obviously det will become better. And crit/spellspeed will become better when your base damage (WD, Int, Det) is higher.

Apparently (according to various reddit posts), Easymode hasn't done any BLM specific testing, whereas Puro has. But I feel Puro is misinterpreting the data because of the above. However, it doesn't make a large amount of difference between Easymode and Puro's weightings. Puro's damage calculator also seems to match up very well with ingame testing too. Its annoying though whenever Puro posts something, rather than post ingame data that proves their point, a number of players will just cry and whine about Puro's posts. But its swings and roundabouts because for the most part, they rank gear the same, with just a few changes here and there. There isn't actually much room for manoeuvre gear choice wise right now.

The main difference is on the "accuracy" pieces, and the only time you are going to be really struggling for accuracy is with the high allagan weapon, or using the Animus/Atma/Wave/Tidal Wave weapons. If you are getting to T8, once you get the Soldiery weapon you'll be fine for accuracy.

Its more important to know the fight, know your rotation, get the accuracy cap and have as high an i-level weapon as possible.

[StUfF]

His 1INT=5Det is backed up by his recent ingame data tests too. However, it doesn't mean that the stat weight is 0.2; because as you get higher levels of crit and spellspeed, obviously det will become better. And crit/spellspeed will become better when your base damage (WD, Int, Det) is higher.

Apparently (according to various reddit posts), Easymode hasn't done any BLM specific testing, whereas Puro has. But I feel Puro is misinterpreting the data because of the above. However, it doesn't make a large amount of difference between Easymode and Puro's weightings. Puro's damage calculator also seems to match up very well with ingame testing too. Its annoying though whenever Puro posts something, rather than post ingame data that proves their point, a number of players will just cry and whine about Puro's posts. But its swings and roundabouts because for the most part, they rank gear the same, with just a few changes here and there. There isn't actually much room for manoeuvre gear choice wise right now.

The main difference is on the "accuracy" pieces, and the only time you are going to be really struggling for accuracy is with the high allagan weapon, or using the Animus/Atma/Wave/Tidal Wave weapons. If you are getting to T8, once you get the Soldiery weapon you'll be fine for accuracy.

Its more important to know the fight, know your rotation, get the accuracy cap and have as high an i-level weapon as possible.

His spreadsheet doesn't even indiciate 1INT=5DET anymore but somehow he he's done and gets some kind of 1INT=4.7DET or something, he does this by taking all his datasets (which range from 1INT=8DET to 1INT=3DET) and testing and then AVERAGES THEM. Not taking into any account any sort of possible scaling and just assuming that DET/INT is static no matter what. THIS MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. He puts in the work but he doesn't seem to understand basic analysis.

EasyModeX himself said that he used a FC members BLM to do the testing as well as collecting data sets from the forums from multiple people. The people saying this are basing it off the fact that is primary character does not have 50BLM. All the datasets he used to formulate his potency formulae is available.

[haroldsaxon]

His spreadsheet doesn't even indiciate 1INT=5DET anymore but somehow he he's done and gets some kind of 1INT=4.7DET or something, he does this by taking all his datasets (which range from 1INT=8DET to 1INT=3DET) and testing and then AVERAGES THEM. Not taking into any account any sort of possible scaling and just assuming that DET/INT is static no matter what. THIS MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. He puts in the work but he doesn't seem to understand basic analysis.

EasyModeX himself said that he used a FC members BLM to do the testing as well as collecting data sets from the forums from multiple people. The people saying this are basing it off the fact that is primary character does not have 50BLM. All the datasets he used to formulate his potency formulae is available.

Yeah, he's since adjusted it to 4.7 det. Honestly, I find that part of the spreadsheet too messy to look at myself, i'd much rather play the actual game than do all that data gathering. Short of me trying out different sets on extended dummy fights while waiting for roullettes (which is what I do to test new gear out). Personally, if I was doing it though, i'd just do damage tests (lots of them) of every possible combination of Int and Det, log the hits and see if there is a clear relationship. I can't say anything on EasyMode's work because i've not seen it. I was just detailing the differences between both "weight sets".

As I said in my last post; I agree, making the judgement that Det is static no matter what is terrible. Because logically, as core damage increases (i.e. a det increase), spellspeed/crit is worth more; and as you are casting more spells (higher spellspeed) or hitting crits more often (Higher crit), your base damage is worth more.

So maybe the relationship between Int and Det is static (assuming Puro is right); however, the relationship between det and crit/spellspeed isn't, thus giving it a completely static stat weight like that is incorrect. As i said before; I generally prefer crit and spellspeed as you just get more of it on your gear. Then again, i've got the best of all 3 worlds at the moment as i'm rocking the crafted set at the moment.

[Alkimi]

Quick question. For the final Fire cast in your rotation is it better to spam your Fire III key at the end of the cast, just in case you get a Firestarter proc? Or go straight to Blizzard III and use that Firestarter to start your next Astral Fire rotation?

[Niiro]

Most recommend just going into Bliz 3 and when you're ready to go back to AF use transpose to get into AF1 -> use FS proc for the extra damage from being in AF1 rather than UI 3.

[StUfF]

So maybe the relationship between Int and Det is static (assuming Puro is right); however, the relationship between det and crit/spellspeed isn't, thus giving it a completely static stat weight like that is incorrect. As i said before; I generally prefer crit and spellspeed as you just get more of it on your gear. Then again, i've got the best of all 3 worlds at the moment as i'm rocking the crafted set at the moment.

The thing is puro's own data proves that INT-DET is not static. His datasets at high gear levels show that INT=3DET~ (which matches up with EMX weightings) while his low gear levels show INT=7DET~, and for some reason he takes the average of all these datasets and displays it as general weighting for all his formula and his graphs.

EMX weightings I believe are based on the damage potency damage formulae that he worked on, as with all his weightings they are based on the latest ilvl levels of gear.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Formula-Thread

[haroldsaxon]

Do you have a spreadsheet for EMX's own data? With the datasets, it could be det getting better at high levels of either det/WD or Int. Its really hard to tell with the limited data.

Looking at Puro's data, he's done it at both i90 and i110 WD sets, with 7 combinations at i90 and 22 sets at i110. His data for i110 is ok (some varying levels of added int and det, but he needs to do the same with i90, i95, i100. If i'm honest, he should also do it with other weapons also.

EMX's thread; well, EMX seems to have 1 BLM set at 69 WD, Kenji has a bit of data though; 8 sets of 8WD, 8 sets at 36 WD, 16 sets at 69 WD (one on page 3), 1 set at 59 WD. Again, the range at 69 WD is ok, but not enough on the other datapoints, and not enough datapoints for even 69 WD. What about high int levels with low det? What about high det with low int? Surely there are enough combinations to get some more conclusive data (again, assuming EMX hasn't done it as i've not seen it in that thread you linked).

I think weightings need to be tied to a gearset i-level (or maybe tied to a WD level to be more accurate), and I agree Puro's interpretation of a static weighting is logically wrong, however I think (from what i've seen), both datasets are lacking. Surely you can wack on some crafter gear sets on with Int/det meld combinations to test more datasets (specifically for low values of int and higher values of det).

But again, its for the time/gain thing. Rotation/Mechanics etc is far more important imo.

[lilbubbles]

Where are people getting idea sands are going to be outside of second coil? I must of missed something or everyone is assuming at the same time.

Turns out my guess was 100% right according to today's live letter.

[haroldsaxon]

Saw that an immediately thought of your guess.

All praise be lilbubbles

[Shaano]

Yeah watched the live letter, wtf eat a dick.

[StUfF]

I think weightings need to be tied to a gearset i-level (or maybe tied to a WD level to be more accurate), and I agree Puro's interpretation of a static weighting is logically wrong, however I think (from what i've seen), both datasets are lacking. Surely you can wack on some crafter gear sets on with Int/det meld combinations to test more datasets (specifically for low values of int and higher values of det).

EMX explained how he did his weightings - basically he assembled several gear sets of the latest gear, ran them through his calculator to get a set of weightings at that set of gear level - then modify his gear based on his weightings and reruns them so on and so on.
With the minimal gear choice we are given anyway I don't think it would be too difficult to actually run a simulation/calculator on each gear set and find the optimal gear set and then base his weightings off that? (Given the potency formula is somewhat correct.)

I havn't really bothered to look at this much since the French and everything.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...C3%A9quipement
There should be link to the spreadsheet somewhere in there. I know it exists.