[Guide] Black Mage - Because, heavy deeps, that's why.

[Seravi Edalborez]

If that is SE-ese for "we patched Flare Loop", I wonder how they fixed/broke it again. When they did it in 2.1 for the old UI3-cast/AF3-power Flare it ended up making the whole job play clunkier. Do they make the MP->0 part come later in the animation somehow? Will UI just fall off early (on cast like Surecast? hope you don't get interrupted)?

We'll find out in like 4 hours but I mean there's only so many ways they might have done it and I can't see a good one.

Will laugh if they "fixed" it but there ends up being yet another way to do flare loops.

edit: I guess it's not that bad even if it's completely gone. Worst case we only Flare when Convert is up so we can Fire(2) > Blizzard3 after and rotation stays smooth. And otherwise just spam F2 rotation.

If the tick timing is kept but it just doesn't work with Flare specifically, this becomes useful maybe:

Probably not a novel discovery or anything but I don't play BLM that much so.

I've been using this macro for Flare loop timing:

/wait 1
/ac "Flare" <t>

I hit this just a hair after the UI1 MP tick (445 spell speed, 2.40 GCD, 3.84 Flare cast time). But I found that I could also use this for hitting F3 out of Flare -> Transpose:

Flare
Transpose
wait for UI1 tick, hit Flare macro
interrupt, immediately hit F3

Always seemed to work for me, ends up in AF3 with the last UI1 MP tick, almost full MP. Not big but might help anyone who needs timing help.

[miokomioko]

It just seems like to correct that tiny instance, they would have to essentially change their whole stance on the action>effect delay that they adamantly claim is intentional. If we have to deal with dying after using Hallowed Ground/Holmgang, they have to let this slide.

[Xerlic]

It just seems like to correct that tiny instance, they would have to essentially change their whole stance on the action>effect delay that they adamantly claim is intentional. If we have to deal with dying after using Hallowed Ground/Holmgang, they have to let this slide.

I'll trade in BLM DPS if Benediction will actually save someone from dying.

EDIT: According to reddit, the "fix" was to nerf the amount of mana that UI gives you if you're casting flare to make it impossible to cast it again.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._been_patched/

[Seravi Edalborez]

So what's happening is that MP tick that occurs after UI1 Flare (or F3, tried) is not UI1'd, it is natural MP (which isn't enough to do much of anything, 79 for me). Bye Flarespam.

[Deadgye]

So what's happening is that MP tick that occurs after UI1 Flare (or F3, tried) is not UI1'd, it is natural MP (which isn't enough to do much of anything, 79 for me). Bye Flarespam.

Does this behavior extend to casting f3 to get out of ui3 as well? The potency increase is going to mean even less if I have to now wait an extra second to get out of ui3.

[Raldo]

I'm gonna guess no (but I haven't tested), because of bolded section

An issue wherein thaumaturges and black mages were able to cast multiple fire-based spells under the effect of Umbral Ice I or II.

Note that UI3 is missing. I couldn't think of why until you just posted that. Now it all makes sense.

[Deadgye]

Ah, so it's only the transpose -> double flare that got killed off.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Well specifically, the way you did double Flare (or even a well-timed delayed F3 after Transpose) was that you made the MP tick come after the cast fired.

The fix was to make that MP tick be no-AF/no-UI regen, not UI1 regen. I tried my "delayed F3" instead of Flare and it ended up the same way where I just went from ~2k to ~2.1k instead of 3k+ like pre-patch.

[haroldsaxon]

The double flare exploit was stupid. Anyone moaning about the "nerf" is retarded, it was an exploit. You aren't meant to gain mana after a flare.

F3, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose is more than enough anyway.

[Seravi Edalborez]

You should be able to do Trans > Fire 3 > Fire 2 > Fire 2 > Flare, at least I was able to. Maybe requires SCH?

e: nah just did with whm
e2: or is it better to skip to the flare anyways?

[miokomioko]

I suppose their mistake was making the resulting Umbral Ice/Fire effect sync up with the spell landing on your target as opposed to the spell simply being cast and eating your MP.

OH WELL

[Dammerung]

The double flare exploit was stupid. Anyone moaning about the "nerf" is retarded, it was an exploit. You aren't meant to gain mana after a flare.

F3, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose is more than enough anyway.

If it was an "exploit" it would have, y'know, maybe been patched before the game is ALMOST A YEAR OLD. It was a balance change.

[Deadgye]

The double flare exploit was stupid. Anyone moaning about the "nerf" is retarded, it was an exploit. You aren't meant to gain mana after a flare.

F3, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose, Fire 3, Fire 2, Flare, Transpose is more than enough anyway.

Until they 'fix' benediction/holmgang/hallowed ground/etc still getting eaten when you die during the animation, it's not an exploit.

[Niiro]

Truth.

They designed the shit this way, knowing the delays would cause shit like this to happen, and they only "fix" it when players use it to their benefit.

[haroldsaxon]

I'm sure they designed server latency. A simple fix would be for the skill not to go on cooldown if the effect wasn't applied, but then again, its taken SE months to fix the exploiting of umbral ice.

Server Latency =/= a designed mechanic.

[Niiro]

No shit, because it's not server latency.

[haroldsaxon]

No shit, because it's not server latency.

Of course its server latency. You aren't meant to get mana ticks in Astral Fire. So either its a bug and you were somehow getting mana ticks in Astral Fire, or its due to your latency to the server and the tick happens before you switch phases, but it only comes through on your screen after you switched phases.

Given at what happens with things like Benediction, its pretty obvious its server latency. It was always an exploit because you aren't meant to gain mana when in Astral Fire.

[Niiro]

It's not latency.

SE has said, verbatim, that the delayed effects of things like HG and Bene not taking effect until a certain point in the animation were designed to be that way (they've even adjusted HG's delay to be slightly less after people complained enough). Delayed, animation dependent effects are present in basically every ability/WS/spell, it's just particularly noteworthy/frustrating for skills like HG and Bene for obvious reasons.

Flare was no different, you didn't go into AF until a certain, delayed point in the animation, allowing a tic of UI to happen in that brief interim if you timed it right.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Of course its server latency. You aren't meant to get mana ticks in Astral Fire. So either its a bug and you were somehow getting mana ticks in Astral Fire, or its due to your latency to the server and the tick happens before you switch phases, but it only comes through on your screen after you switched phases.

Given at what happens with things like Benediction, its pretty obvious its server latency. It was always an exploit because you aren't meant to gain mana when in Astral Fire.

Yet we still do. Not UI1 ticks anymore, but still ticks.

[Sephiroth]

My favourite mechanic of BLM is when you use Transpose after a Flare but you're still in AF3 afterwards. How come they don't bother to fix that?