Revitalization of taking roles

[dasva]

And it's the same with magic resistance if I recall.
Even with very very very high rates, it's never gonna be 100%, and there's always gonna be that one time where you take full damage and die. This is too much of a risk for a job that's supposed to reliably tank, imho.
It's not a good "core concept" for a tank job, I think.
Unless you give the job a way to handle, to some extent, those situtions.

Perhaps but people were using meva tanking long long ago and worked just fine. You just didn't use it against something that would one shot you without it. But then again back then they didn't design things that would one shot you at full at hp with 50% mdt. That said what are you fighting that does 8k magical dmg moves?

[dasva]

no its not dumb. the dumb thing was to allow aegis surpassing the MDT cap without an aftermath constantly unlike other relics that need an aftermath to surpass it. dont you see how OP it is and detrimental for future content design if they allways have to factor in aegis?

What relic besides aegis allows you to bypass the mdt cap with aftermath? Also they don't do that. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...458#post488458

[Revati]

I don't think anything could be as detrimental as nerfing rme >.>. Remember all the people that quit last time they said they were't going to upgrade rme?

[LiquidFriend]

no its not dumb. the dumb thing was to allow aegis surpassing the MDT cap without an aftermath constantly unlike other relics that need an aftermath to surpass it. dont you see how OP it is and detrimental for future content design if they allways have to factor in aegis?

lolwhat

Aegis is such a gamebreaker that hey, I can tank current content just fine without it! This is hilarious because you think a shield that maybe 1% of the total population has is directly influencing S-E when they design new content.

Does it make things easier? Well yeah. Does nerfing it help Rune Fencer at all? Haha no.

That is why I said your idea was dumb, because you think a relic shield somehow has broken your job when it hasn't and it's broken because it's just a flawed job.

But shit, lets nerf Daurbala's too because I can't get a hexagun on COR that allows me to do 4 rolls.

[Roundelk]

1%? There's probably more Aegis' than Ochains lol.

[NynJa]

1%? There's probably more Aegis' than Ochains lol.

As of 2013 census
Aegis（Lv. 95) 2,795
Total 3,653 <- includes ancile as well as all stages of Aegis

Ochain (Lv.90) 3,911
Total 9,480 <- this includes Utils Shield (and lets be honest, soul farming will break anyones soul) and all levels of Ochain


Obviously a year has passed since these numbers came out...but we should be due for the 2014 census soon (nvm theyre apparently in may)

[Prothescar]

well thats good to know. it still leaves TP moves then, right?

Nope, physical TP moves can be parried too. You can totally shut down a monster like a naraka or harpy just by using Battuta.


A big thing they can do is increase Swordplay's duration by a significant amount (or lower its recast) and change the deactivation property (it deactivates if you take severe damage) to a Migawari-like effect that has a chance of leaving Swordplay active when it goes off. Sort of like third eye except only for severe damage. Boosting the evasion buff on it wouldn't hurt either, or better yet change it to parrying.

[dasva]

Who cares how many aegis exist SE has said they don't design content based around rmes period

[Prothescar]

another idea that hit my brain meats: have Valiance and Vallation offer full elemental protection with only one rune when your main job is RUN, that way we can have up to three elements protected at once. Maybe extend that to Pflug too

[Martel]

another idea that hit my brain meats: have Valiance and Vallation offer full elemental protection with only one rune when your main job is RUN, that way we can have up to three elements protected at once. Maybe extend that to Pflug too

That'd be nice. Although, I suspect SE would consider it too much work to adjust everything that depends on the number of runes up.

I really miss when Rune merits made them 0 recast. I mean, there's no denying that that's broken. But being able to get 3 runs back up all at once was so nice.

So what I'd like, is for them to put Rune recast on a charge system. Like stratagems. That way you can put 3 runes up at once, and minimize the JA delay incurred by stacking them. But you wouldn't be able to spam Runes non-stop.

[Prothescar]

So basically, compilation of changes that would be nice for RUN:

-Charge based rune system to reduce JA delay and make putting runes up a little less awkward
-Rune dependent abilities gain their full mitigation with only 1 rune to allow RUN to be effective against more than just one element at a time. Make it a high level trait so that it only works for RUN main or something
-Undispellable runes and wards
-AoE Pflug ward
-Adjust Swordplay to act as a Third Eye-style Migawari and increase it's duration by a minute or two. Also consider enhancing the evasion/accuracy bonuses and/or change the evasion bonus to parrying.
-A self heal of some sort that isn't Liement or Regen. Expend runes to heal yourself based on the number of runes used, or something.




I'd also like to see:

-More Effusions, particularly ones that buff physical and magical damage power to allow for RUN to fill a little more of a DD role. I don't foresee RUN ever being capable of replacing or emulating PLD's ability to tank, so a support DD that is more self sufficient and useful for mitigating damage taken for themselves and their party makes a lot more sense.
-Enhancements to runes. Increase the potency of the enspell effects: increased damage and something like decreased magic accuracy for the target based on which rune is currently being used. i.e. Unda would reduce fire magic accuracy. Further enhancement to the elemental resistance provided by them would be nice, too.
-Inquartata buff. 20~25% for max tier would be nice.

[Odesseiron]

What they need to do is bring back the buttersheep as a viable combination again.

[Ophannus]

A migawari-like JA for RUN would be useful too. Just something for those ohshit situations. PLD has invincible/sentinel(rampart for magic), RUN has Elemental Sforzo but something for Physical would be nice. Batattuta is great but it's still a 'chance' and RUN is awfully squishy when an attack gets past parry/eva. My suggestion was either a short duration Migawari-like JA or something akin to Fan Dance; could have a penalty like can't use Effusions while up or something, and a stance that increases DA/TA similar to Sabre Dance but can't use Wards. A stance to generate damage/hate and a stance to lower damage taken basically. Also a trait every 10-15 levels that adds an +enmity during Swordplay or Foil would be sweet. Say +10 for the first tier, and +5 for each additional tier up to +25 total. PLD has Sentinel which is +100 enmity, I don't see why RUN can't have additional enmity. RUN has better damage but it's really not enough, especially since RUN can't cure for hate either.

Extra enmity and an extra layer of physical protection as a last resort when EVA/Parry aren't working too well. I was also thinking of a 10min ability that let you completely avoid special attacks. 30 second duration and you can avoid X number of special attacks similar to Third Eye, the closer to activation the less of a chance of it wearing off. This could be a game changer for tanking mobs that like to spam TP moves under 25%. It's like a RUN third eye version of Yaegasumi(it works on AoE). A pommel bash would be a great spike enmity tool and maybe give the RUN a few seconds to get a phalanx up or something.

One last thing I think would be great for RUN but I know a lot of people will get mad, give them Temper. They'd make much better use of it than RDM. Can embolden it ftw.

Orrrrrr instead of all the JAs I recommended, SE can consolidate them all into one Effusion that grants a specific buff depending on what element of runes were expended:
Earth Runes: 15/20/25% PDT
Light Runes: Potent Regen(level dependant) 60/75/90 per tick
Thunder Runes: Multi Strikes (DA15%/TA10%/QA5%)
Water Runes: Potency of Cure Effect Received+ 15/25/35%
Dark Runes: +30/40/50 Enmity
Ice Runes: MAB + 30/40/50(for teh lungez)
Wind Runes: Mitigates the impact of severely damaging attacks for duration.
Fire Runes: Avoid a special attack(one per rune)

So like you can throw up Ignis x1 Tellusx 1 and Tenebrae x1 when you use this Effusion, and now you have for the next 60 seconds Enmity+30, Double Attack+15% and you will avoid the next(1) TP move directed at you. Or say you want to play it safe, you can use 3x Ignis and avoid the next 3 TP moves, or throw up 3x Flabra and have a potent Scherzo effect. Outside of battle you can Regen IV yourself and throw up 3x Lux and use the effusion for a potent regen recovery. It would be similar to a Maneuver effect in that you can mix and match your 3 Runes with this effusion for a host of bonuses that can either increase your damage output, damage received or enmity etc...

[Koyangi]

RUN needs an overhaul similar to the 1 SCH received when they got addendums added.

[dasva]

I don't really understand what you are getting at about RUN hate. It probably has the best hate tools in the game outside of blu.

Outside of the fact it can deal alot more dmg than pld... each rune is 80/320, vallation/vallaince/liement is 450/900, gambit 640/1280, looks like I forgot to test pflug and haven't done the merit ones but the rest are all 160/320. Foil is 320/880 and flash is same as always and with vallation/vallaince fast cast you can spam those

Also curing for hate is horrible right now. I don't really use a cure set on pld... but right now cure IV cure around 450hp. That would come out to 105/635 for hate. Barely better than a rune lol

[Martel]

I don't really understand what you are getting at about RUN hate. It probably has the best hate tools in the game outside of blu.

Outside of the fact it can deal alot more dmg than pld... each rune is 80/320, vallation/vallaince/liement is 450/900, gambit 640/1280, looks like I forgot to test pflug and haven't done the merit ones but the rest are all 160/320. Foil is 320/880 and flash is same as always and with vallation/vallaince fast cast you can spam those.

I'm immensely envious of RUNs enmity arsenal. All PLD JA are 1 CE. And the enmity adjustment to reprisal was more of an insult than an improvement.

Also curing for hate is horrible right now. I don't really use a cure set on pld... but right now cure IV cure around 450hp. That would come out to 105/635 for hate. Barely better than a rune lol

How are you getting that enmity value?

As far as I know the most recently tested cure CE mod was at lvl 90, with a value of 40/62(0.645) While the value should decline more til 99 I don't think it will drop by more than two thirds in 9 levels.

So, a 450 cure(which is about what my cure III cheat cures for <,<) would be 290/1741.

My cure IV cheat cures 748. So 482/2892 before enmity gear.

If nothing else, It makes a good fast VE tool. Sentinel and 2 cure4's would push you right to VE cap. A nice way to start, or renew hate post reset. Rather MP inefficient though.

I'm not trying to say cure enmity is amazing or anything, but its not That bad.

EDIT:It suddenly occurs to me, that I've completely overlooked major the enmity adjustments from awhile back. But I've no idea how hard those hit cure enmity.

Was the CE mod retested post update? Cause if your value is accurate for the current CE mod, that certainly does suck. <,<;;

[dasva]

Yes I personally retested cures and put them on the enmity thread which is where I pulled my values. And yeah I don't really have a real cure set on my pld with potency and such so I know it can be higher. Just an example and partly cause I know alot of people don't really make cure sets. Seems they kinda messed up with that. I mean originally it was so meant to counter how much dmg emnity DDs lost so they could hold hate... but DD dmg has ramped back up again while cures and hps haven't too much so back to the old you'll pretty much never pull hate with cures again

[Martel]

Think you could direct me to said thread? I couldn't find any values on the wiki, and search is not helping much in finding the tests on the forums. Really need a good list of enmity related factors on the wiki somewhere.

[Martel]

OK, well. I found your Cure enmity test. It seems like I actually used to have the 0.235 value in my enmity spreadsheet. But when I went to reevaluate cures after some discussion on FFXIAH, I changed it to the 0.635 value since I couldn't find the source for the 0.235 anymore. I think the BG wiki needs some work. Either the enmity page, or maybe just a table with the various modifiers.

But yeah, this is pretty bad now. 175/1050 for a 748 cure IV. 278/1668 after +59 enmity.

[dasva]

Yeah pretty much everything on enmity page is probably wrong now lol.