Return to Delkfutt’s Tower: Part 2

[Damane]

Just because we happened to have cleared it using 3 mythics, 3 relics, and 3 empys, along with a total of 14 characters for a 6-man event, doesn't mean it's the only way the content can be done.
It seems there is just a general lack of people trying new strategies at all compared to even several months ago. So yes, our 3+ minutes of gil-fueled invincibility seems ridiculous to clear content, but there is no way that it is necessary. There is an additional 26 minutes to clear the battlefield and I'm sure tons of tweaks that could be made to attempts so far to make it work on VD. People just need to do more attempts on VD, or even SOME attempts on VD before you go crying for content or job nerfs.

Nerf BRD rotations? lol. They aren't hard to do. Play with less sucky players, and that's coming from me.

I think you missed my point. I am totally fine what you are doing, its your thing, but SE should eliminate brd rotation all together, it gives a false impression that the game is "easy" in some aspects. Should have never been able to do this in the first place, but rather force you to select appropriate jobs/combination/songs for the situtation/fight you need. The whole melee zerging thing from past days only became possible BECAUSE of brd rotations (outside of kraken club DRK souleater etc. zerging), which lead them to implement retarded things like dreadspike mobs, amnesia shit etc. Just look at Einherjar when introduced first time, followed by some various othershit to counter this. The pineaccle was prolly Legion... Which was not feasable winnable with a good amount of rewards without doing this (or winnable at all).

This brd rotation thing also excludes other jobs out because if you have 2 brds to rotate each with 4 songs, why bring a DRG for angon or a thf for feint? Other jobs could offer things, but they cant because its more potent to just go bard rotation.

[Byrthnoth]

Maybe SE didn't design VD for average players.

[Anomie]

Maybe SE didn't design VD for average players.

Obviously they didn't, but ill go ahead and say it flat out, there's literally no way possible that the people who tested it, did it they way they say they do it.

I can say this with absolute fact, 100% certainty. There is no possible way they're able to do content without skewing the odds in their favor.

I'd quit playing all together and never post again if they would put videos of them out doing this content with all AH gear, tanking with RUN, not using brds or cors at all etc.

[Damane]

Maybe SE didn't design VD for average players.

Definitly not for average players but AA VDs are winnable, hard but winnable if you adjust your setup. As mentioned by someone previously, even without bard rotation. I just dont see the point of how somethign so OP as Bard and Cor Rotation is left untouched for several years when it impacts setup/job choices and creates an impact of imbalance on basicly almost everything.

[Damane]

Obviously they didn't, but ill go ahead and say it flat out, there's literally no way possible that the people who tested it, did it they way they say they do it.

I can say this with absolute fact, 100% certainty. There is no possible way they're able to do content without skewing the odds in their favor.

I'd quit playing all together and never post again if they would put videos of them out doing this content with all AH gear, tanking with RUN, not using brds or cors at all etc.

hold a sec on, the Devs never said and clearly stated, that VD content was designed with SPECIFIC PT setups in mind, they also stated you need top notch gear for VD ecxept for REM. This is true for all VDs that have come by ecxept for kamlanaut.

[Byrthnoth]

Honestly, I agree with you for the most part. I don't think SE considers BRD+COR rotations when they make their content and I think they do add content that they don't think is beatable.

Like, Tojil probably wouldn't have been beatable without BRD+COR rotations when it came out. Because Tojil wouldn't have been beatable, Bee and Shark also wouldn't have been beatable. If you remove the May iLevel 119 weapons / near-infinite Plasm from the equation, Adoulin would probably have progressed very differently and much of their May/June/July content wouldn't have been entirely outdated before release.

[Damane]

Honestly, I agree with you for the most part. I don't think SE considers BRD+COR rotations when they make their content and I think they do add content that they don't think is beatable.

Like, Tojil probably wouldn't have been beatable without BRD+COR rotations when it came out. Because Tojil wouldn't have been beatable, Bee and Shark also wouldn't have been beatable. If you remove the May iLevel 119 weapons / near-infinite Plasm from the equation, Adoulin would probably have progressed very differently and much of their May/June/July content wouldn't have been entirely outdated before release.

I wouldnt say unwinnable, harder yes, but it definitly would have required a different setup, like the inclusion of Thf and Drg for angon/feint (albeit DRGs were present in the first tojil wins and later on) that could also deal excellent damage to make up for the 2 rolls and 2-4 additional brd songs you lost from not haveing a rotation option. Probably would have needed also to beed out 1-2 of the pre NMs (most likely the adamantoise) to have enough time for tojil. Most likely the fight would have also relied alot on the luck of wild card.

[Byrthnoth]

I think you forget the 10 minute time limit. Groups were breaking their asses with Rigors and swapping to kill Tojil before he became immune to stun. Learning to take off the attack down aura might have made it possible with luck, but that took months even after he was on farm status fora lot of shells.

[Damane]

I think you forget the 10 minute time limit. Groups were breaking their asses with Rigors and swapping to kill Tojil before he became immune to stun. Learning to take off the attack down aura might have made it possible with luck, but that took months even after he was on farm status fora lot of shells.

nah didnt forget the time limit. as said definitly alot harder and more luck based for tojil, but you would have also required to bead out at least 1 of the pre NMs to reach tojil in time (at least before getting oat), since they would have died slower too. My wording was maybe misleading. The beeding out wasnt meant as in "have more time to fight tojil", because tojil starts to resist stun after some time, more like "have enough time to even reach tojil and fight him".

[Xenhas]

Legion was definitely winnable without BRD rotation because that's how my ls did it. Also stun is irrelevant to beating Tojil. SE themselves mentioned using strats that involve staying out of range to not get weakened, ie RNG, which never relied on killing before the stun wall.
But this whole debate is trivial anyways, and pretty offtopic now. If you don't want to be optimal with your buffs available, don't be surprised if you can't beat everything that exists on the "VERY DIFFICULT" settings. SE went out of their way to label it nice and clearly for everyone.

[Damane]

Legion was definitely winnable without BRD rotation because that's how my ls did it. Also stun is irrelevant to beating Tojil. SE themselves mentioned using strats that involve staying out of range to not get weakened, ie RNG, which never relied on killing before the stun wall.
But this whole debate is trivial anyways, and pretty offtopic now. If you don't want to be optimal with your buffs available, don't be surprised if you can't beat everything that exists on the "VERY DIFFICULT" settings. SE went out of their way to label it nice and clearly for everyone.

should have mentioned embrava 2 hour lock like in my previous post and PD. my bad (which boils down to the same thing basicly)

[Gorion]

Anyone one have a good working strat for this ? not reading anything concrete here. just wanna win on normal first then ill try Diff

[Sephiran]

Light Blade has me completely befuddled--and that's saying something since I figured out Podarge. Here's everything I know about Kam'lanaut:

-Light Blade appears to be hybrid damage. Aegis reduces it as does blocking. The damage is at times, greatly mercurial.
-Below 50%, Kam'lanaut will begin using the second elemental wheel. The first time he uses a move, say Ignition, a gyve known as an Esoteric Scrivening is spawned. All are weak to magic damage and resistant to physical damage. Requiescat is particularly effective.
-The second time the same move is used, the gyve becomes a clone. The clones mirror Light Blade and Great Wheel.
-After the clones gain TP, they will use the second-elemental wheel move that summoned them. This gives them the additional effects. The additional effects appear to expire after ~5 minutes.

As PLD, I solo this fight a lot on E. It's generally not that bad. You supertank the clones and WS him to death with the TP feed.

[Lyramion]

Since it's bumped I will repost what I wrote on FFXIAH:

Strategy was delevopled to

A) not use 2hrs
B) be able to clear on D
C) be able to recruit a random PLD or GEO in shout without much room to fail


2x PLD
BRD (3song only)
WHM
SCH
GEO

Geo uses -Eeva on the boss and +Macc on himself. SCH applies Helix for 400~ and uses Modus (around 50% landrate even on D). Gravity lands on her with the +macc making Great Wheels much more managable hate wise. Also you can Helix Esoteric Scrivening with the right element and it will die before it splits into a Clone.

One PLD had 90% ACC and other had 60% Acc only. One PLD died once even.


Basically bored it to death on D. Took 26 minutes.

[Sephiran]

Since it's bumped I will repost what I wrote on FFXIAH:

Strategy was delevopled to

A) not use 2hrs
B) be able to clear on D
C) be able to recruit a random PLD or GEO in shout without much room to fail


2x PLD
BRD (3song only)
WHM
SCH
GEO

Geo uses -Eeva on the boss and +Macc on himself. SCH applies Helix for 400~ and uses Modus (around 50% landrate even on D). Gravity lands on her with the +macc making Great Wheels much more managable hate wise. Also you can Helix Esoteric Scrivening with the right element and it will die before it splits into a Clone.

One PLD had 90% ACC and other had 60% Acc only. One PLD died once even.


Basically bored it to death on D. Took 26 minutes.

While trying this sounds like a lot of fun and I am a PLD who takes considerable pride in his DD gearsets (got Excal, Ouryu pants, Realmrazer setup, you name it)--it doesn't change the fact that the setup bars almost all other DD's. In my opinion, the key to figuring this fight out is understanding the nature of Light Blade and what causes its damage to be so variable.

The range of Light Blades I've experienced soloing on E is from 63~1329 DMG (and that 1329 was with me standing across the arena from him). The very first time I did it on E, he didn't use Light Blade a single time. And, having only two TP moves, what are the odds of the same one getting used ~15 times consecutively? How come Light Blade missed me the last time I did it three times in a row. Earlier in this thread, I compared trying to figure him out to Podarge. Honestly, I'm tempted to try alternating WS's to balance physical and magical damage. But I can only pray that this is not the trick to the fight, because that hate reset will make bringing mages a nasty affair without multiple tanks subbing NIN. Who knows though? Maybe the hate reset itself is conditional.

Next time I go in, I'll test balancing damage and enmity fluctuation.

[Damane]

While trying this sounds like a lot of fun and I am a PLD who takes considerable pride in his DD gearsets (got Excal, Ouryu pants, Realmrazer setup, you name it)--it doesn't change the fact that the setup bars almost all other DD's. In my opinion, the key to figuring this fight out is understanding the nature of Light Blade and what causes its damage to be so variable.

The range of Light Blades I've experienced soloing on E is from 63~1329 DMG (and that 1329 was with me standing across the arena from him). The very first time I did it on E, he didn't use Light Blade a single time. And, having only two TP moves, what are the odds of the same one getting used ~15 times consecutively? How come Light Blade missed me the last time I did it three times in a row. Earlier in this thread, I compared trying to figure him out to Podarge. Honestly, I'm tempted to try alternating WS's to balance physical and magical damage. But I can only pray that this is not the trick to the fight, because that hate reset will make bringing mages a nasty affair without multiple tanks subbing NIN. Who knows though? Maybe the hate reset itself is conditional.

Next time I go in, I'll test balancing damage and enmity fluctuation.

DD Run makes this fight a complete joke, foil the shit out of light blade and just DD along with a PLD, if hate reset happens the cooldowns of RUN are more then enough to bring everything back into position.

[Fival]

I imagine the strategy i used for this on difficult when it was relatively new is much quicker now, without being a zerg.

NIN THF BRD SMN WHM SCH, you could use NIN x2, or NIN + MNK, but we always preferred TH.

Scherzo + Earthen Armor, our SMN would generally take care of the summons while the SCH would stun, either stun spells or stun right after them to buy time for utsu. The WHM didn't have a yagrush and was miserable about doing this fight. Anyway this was like over 11 months ago or something now, it used to take about 15 minutes per fight, i imagine with the changes to NIN and to both katana and dagger, this would be a far quicker fight. That said, theres not much room for error, when we made mistakes back then, it got rough, if the NIN died he could just mijin, if the thf died the nin could keep going usually, if support dies your screwed.

It would be nice to understand how to deal with light blade without using the scherzo+ea method, but i get the impression some things are just meant to deal excessive damage.

[Bukadan]

the whm was miserable because he didnt have a yagrush? if anything the brd should have been erasing just as quickly to help out, especially if the whm was vocal about it. sounds like you could also change some members of that party to add more room for error (ie. more advanced maging?) and itll be better? ive never done it that way so idk if the melee died do to negligence or whatever but it does seem like a legit strat

[Fival]

It was just annoying for some reason i don't remember. I think the BRD may have been /NIN or dual boxed, or just not quick with erases, i don't recall its been almost a year. The WHM was doing a good deal of erasing and silena after -ga would land, should someone Ni while still slowed it was actually dangerous.

[Darkmagi]

I don't play anymore, but light blade damage is reduced by range from target. Similar to flying wyrms auto attacks. The most fool proof method really is to just DD zerg it, you don't need PD if all DD are using 119 gear. I'd imagine if you could have a geo cause slowga or dispelga to resist, that would be amazing. I stopped playing before all of the geo buffs. Shock Squall and zerg really did melt it, and this was before all the massive damage buffs. Scherzo+EA handles all the lethal damage, great wheel will require curagas.