DISCUSSION: 1/20/14 Version Update

[haruhigumi]

In regards to Turbo Charger II, it's not adding haste:

A wind-based automaton attachment. Functionality: Decreases melee physical attack delay.

It decreases the delay, but doesn't give a Haste status, meaning in theory you could break the cap because it's not being counted as +% Haste.

[dasva]

Of course if that's what it does it wont be additive with haste and lower tp per hit somewhat devaluing that aspect

[Malithar]

I'd guess bad rate or they meant 109 lol. I've 0/5 on amphibian

Seems they're just rare. Did 6 D Kindred Spirits earlier and went 1/6 on Hepatizon Ore. I'd say it's a safe assumption that whatever slot the tales drop for, the 119 mat could drop for, however it's not the case with the 109 mat. We had a Beetle Blood and a Malboro Fiber drop in those 6 runs.

On a completely "did they increase the drop rate of Ridill?" note, we went 5/6 on cases of RME items in those runs.

[haruhigumi]

Of course if that's what it does it wont be additive with haste and lower tp per hit somewhat devaluing that aspect

Yea... maybe they're expecting you to use tactical switch more often or something...

[dasva]

Seems they're just rare. Did 6 D Kindred Spirits earlier and went 1/6 on Hepatizon Ore. I'd say it's a safe assumption that whatever slot the tales drop for, the 119 mat could drop for, however it's not the case with the 109 mat. We had a Beetle Blood and a Malboro Fiber drop in those 6 runs.

On a completely "did they increase the drop rate of Ridill?" note, we went 5/6 on cases of RME items in those runs.

Maybe D/VD only? If so that would suck. I don't really feel comfortable triboxing D. Either way sounds like your luck is better than mine lol. So far 13 normal runs tonight have yielded 4 109 items and 3 single rem items

[Capuchin]

In regards to Turbo Charger II, it's not adding haste

Completely correct, assuming the item description is accurate (giving S-E the benefit of the doubt here despite a tradition of wonky PUP-related item descriptions).

It's probably easiest to think of it just like you would Dual Wield. DW and haste are both calculated separately, but both are subject to the overall 80% delay reduction cap along with all other sources of delay reduction (JA haste, magical haste, delay reduction -x% gear, Blitzer's Roll, Martial Arts, etc.). TP/hit is, of course, also based on delay (lower delay resulting in lower TP/hit) and not affected by haste, which is why until cap, haste beats DW in equal amounts.

Of course, just ask any NIN or DNC... it's definitely still very appealing to stack both haste and DW gear. And in many cases, a piece with lots of DW- will beat haste options in the same slot (say, Charis+2 body), particularly if you can still cap or even nearly cap haste with gear in other slots.

Back to PUP attachment specifics:

1) Turbo Charger I is and always has been gear haste, subject to the 25% gear haste cap. It has a 5% passive effect, and using 1/2/3 wind maneuvers bumps that up to 15%/20%/25%. As we've seen lots more pet haste gear lately, and particularly gear that's also pretty good for the master (Regimen Mittens, Hurch'lan Sash, Foire set), it's become increasingly easy to cap automaton haste with fairly minimal effort. Hell, I've been using an capped automaton haste set to AFK beat on reives for chances at capes - no maneuvers required at all.

2) Turbo Charger II appears from the description to be simply melee attack delay reduction. Just like DW or Blitzer's Roll. So, not subject to the 25% cap that applies to gear+Turbo Charger I. It also does sound like it should reduce TP/hit through the delay reduction, just like DW does.

3) Even not knowing amounts at this point (though it seems like a reasonable guess for something similar to the 5/15/20/25 setup for 0/1/2/3 maneuvers that we see with Turbo Charger), it looks like:
(a) Equipping both Turbo Chargers should easily benefit Valoredge
(b) Turbo Charger II may provide comparatively lower benefit for Sharpshot, since the realistic concern of losing a hit on x-hit hurts SS a lot more (big Armor Shatterer blasts are a major part of SS's utility). However, still seems pretty reasonable to assume SS will be able to take advantage of Turbo Charger II.

[shepardG]

The new guy coming with the clarity, thanks bro

[Sechs]

Yes but the problem with Turbo Charger II is that SE's description says it lowers delay, whereas the .dat description says it gives haste.
Who do we need to trust?
How many wind slots does it require? What about Vivi Valve 2?

[Orcai]

I want to point out that SE's description of the original turbo charger is exactly the same as the new one. Until hard testing is done, i'll hold off on judgement of this attachment.

[Sechs]

To further emphasize on my previous post:

http://i39.tinypic.com/oh74ua.png

Who are we supposed to trust?

[JSHidaka]

To further emphasize on my previous post:

http://i39.tinypic.com/oh74ua.png

Who are we supposed to trust?

.dats... unless we find the jap source and translate it.

[Sechs]

I don't even have a clue where you obtain those from. RoE sparks? Drops from the 2 new BCs?
I'm still pretty puzzled.
TC2 could have a purpose even if it were haste I suppose, but VV2... really, why?

If anybody can provide the French, Jap and Germany .dat descriptions maybe we could sort things out.


French Description: "Un circuit d'automate dont les attributs sont basés sur le vent. Effet "Hâte"." (they talk about Haste)
German Description: "Zubehör für Automaten, welches das Element Wind in sich birgt. Fügt „Hast“-Effekt hinzu." (again, they talk about haste)
Japanese Description: http://i42.tinypic.com/osss5u.png (My japanese is too limited, but it seems to me it talks about delay and not haste?)


Supposing the japanese description is the same as the english one, where is the error? In the jap/english text or in the german/french?

.dats... unless we find the jap source and translate it.

Keep in mind that the one inside .dats is just a text description created by SE, not something that has been really "data mined". It's just the internal item description of the Attachment.
Being text, it's no different from the "text" in the patch notes. The human translation error could be anywhere. In the patch notes just like in the dats.

[JSHidaka]

the part after "のア"... contains the "important info" it just say that is a wind based attachment...

edit: after checking the JP update notes.. yea it says "Decrease melee physical delay"... just need to find the haste(the spell) description to compare it just in case..

edit2: yea.. Haste and the attachment have different wording

[Sechs]

So yeah to sum up the situaiton we have:

1) Notes description for the JP and English text that talk about "physical delay"
2) Notes about French/German that talk about "Haste"
3) English .dat attachment description that talks about "Haste"

Would be awesome if someone could provide the .dat description for JP/German/French, I'm unable to do that.
Keep in mind, as I said above, all of this is just "text". The human error could be anywhere, in the notes or in the .dats or whatever.
Atm I'm personally leaning towards TCII just being a "stronger" version of TCI, hence providing a bigger amount of haste (altough it would make little sense @3 maneuvers since you'd still be capped at 25...)

[JSHidaka]

yea.. but normally JP original text are right, the typos are in translations... "normally" either way.. till ppl figure out where to get this, nothing can be done

or nvm... is crafted..

Turbo Charger II [ALCHEMY 102~103, Iatrochemistry] Fire Crystal, Mythril Sheet, Glass Fiber, Light Bead, Vanir Battery

and for sure.. vanir battery drops in the new bg's... and will be expensive coz ppl will actually use it as an ammo -_-

[Toth]

I think they mixed up the recipes. VV II requires the Haste spell and this requires Light bead? Seems very, very weird.

[JSHidaka]

Well looks like that both need the battery..

[Sechs]

Just how retarded is that -.-
Can we not see how many elemental slots those two attachments require until someone actually installs them from the Whitegate NPC?

[Funkworkz]

The two attachment recipes were reversed, these are the correct recipes (and make a lot more sense)

Vivi-Valve II [ALCHEMY 102~103, Iatrochemistry] Fire Crystal, Mythril Sheet, Glass Fiber, Light Bead, Vanir Battery
Turbo Charger II [ALCHEMY 102~103, Iatrochemistry] Fire Crystal, Mythril Sheet, Glass Fiber, Glass Sheet, Scroll of Haste, Mega Fan, Vanir Battery

sorry about that.

Just how retarded is that -.-
Can we not see how many elemental slots those two attachments require until someone actually installs them from the Whitegate NPC?

Do you need the "Element Charge"? if so they are in the dats. Vivi Valve II is light 3, and Turbo Charger II is air 3

[silentsteel]

did 7 Demolishers SKNM 20 yesterday on normal (tried difficult with my group and lost, lol, DD's not strong enough, too bad I was the healer... XD) not a single 119 mat drop there, I also support the theory that it's D or VD, and if it is lower, it's a much rarer drop.