DRG vs MNK?

[Seravi Edalborez]

Has there been any hard testing somewhere since 2.1 hit that gauges these 2 jobs against each other, as far as DPS potential goes? I know there's some gray area like Disembowl also helping BRDs if you have any, but I haven't yet heard more than just general feelings for which one is better if it's not just "they're about equal" or "depends on skill".

[TheDirtyHobo]

They're about equal, depends on skill.

But really, though, from what I've seen, MNK edges out DRG by a small margin in theorycraft DPS, but that relies on keeping GL3 up, which isn't entirely possible on 3 of the 4 battles (EX Primals, Twin) that are remotely difficult enough that your DPS "matters". You could argue that it matters on Turn 4 too, and they can keep GL3 up full time, but I'm pretty sure DRG crushes them there just by virtue of having some semblance of AoE damage.

[Niiro]

The damage potential between the 2 is close enough to be moot, MNK wins due to increased utility.

DK INT down, Super-Mantra, and (should it ever become truly useful) Dispel from 1-Ilm-Punch.

DRG's only utility is to give BRD damage a little boost.

(this is the opinion of a 90 DRG)

[Berabouman]

I'm curious...can Dragoon really out-DPS a GL3 Monk? I mean, GL is pretty powerful and all, even without the recent buff.

I love Monks (my main) but it seems everyone else in my server is on the Dragoon train. It's so bad the moment I enter a party people are like "OMG A MONK". I've also heard such gems as "wow your class icon looks so cool...what are you? Wolverine?" and the truly unforgettable guy who said "get the drg to use limit break" about halfway through a dungeon.

[Seravi Edalborez]

GL3 makes it seem lopsided (FoF+Twin Snakes+DK = same as Heavy Thrust + Disembowel, so not mentioning) but DRG also has much higher potency on their combos so I wouldn't be surprised at them doing basically similar damage. Like, DRGs typically don't use Fracture anymore because the potency/GCD (220) is actually slightly worse for us than just mashing 123 Full Thrust (680 total; avg ~226). MNK doesn't break more than 200 potency on anything but Demolish and Touch of Death.

[Niiro]

They technically do with Bootshine crits (and Fracture ofc).

[Jaybar]

What about MNKs longevity with TP? Dragoons have Invigorate which keeps them going and going and going - and by the time they need TP again it's already back up and rolling. Except for AoE heavy fights like Turn 4.

[Obsidian]

GL3 makes it seem lopsided (FoF+Twin Snakes+DK = same as Heavy Thrust + Disembowel, so not mentioning) but DRG also has much higher potency on their combos so I wouldn't be surprised at them doing basically similar damage. Like, DRGs typically don't use Fracture anymore because the potency/GCD (220) is actually slightly worse for us than just mashing 123 Full Thrust (680 total; avg ~226). MNK doesn't break more than 200 potency on anything but Demolish and Touch of Death.

Maintaining GL3 is also a bitch in most fights thanks to all the movement and bosses straight up vanishing from the battlefield. Whatever advantage it provides over DRG is severely tempered by your inability to maintain it for any significant length of time.

[Elcura]

What about MNKs longevity with TP? Dragoons have Invigorate which keeps them going and going and going - and by the time they need TP again it's already back up and rolling. Except for AoE heavy fights like Turn 4.

Since skillspeed is a lot lower now for MNKs in general, TP isn't that much of a concern since a lot of fights have various TP breaks (where you lose GL lol). The only fights I come close to running out of TP are in coil (snake, turn 2 ADS, turn 4, Twintania) since those are the fights that generally have no breaks in them.

In which case, dropping fracture and ToD (demolish is too cheap and strong to ever drop) when under certain amounts of tp with no invigorate generally means you can keep going until you get more TP. I generally drop fracture under 500 TP, and ToD under 300. Generally I never get that low unless I completely forget to invigorate, die or spam AoE.

Maintaining GL3 is also a bitch in most fights thanks to all the movement and bosses straight up vanishing from the battlefield. Whatever advantage it provides over DRG is severely tempered by your inability to maintain it for any significant length of time.

Generally DRGs have it bad as well, since bosses love to turn around which fucks up the positioning. Like MNK, DRGs have to learn the best ways to keep their buffs up (and do combos), which is generally viable in most situations. I wouldn't say MNK or DRG have it good since it sucks to be one or the other somehow.

[Judai]

What about MNKs longevity with TP? Dragoons have Invigorate which keeps them going and going and going - and by the time they need TP again it's already back up and rolling. Except for AoE heavy fights like Turn 4.

I haven't had any fights as Monk where I ran out of TP unless I derped and forgot to Invig. For short fights, I use Fracture every time I Demolish, for long fights I only use it when I use ToD, and drop it out of my rotation occasionally unless B4B is up if I see my TP draining too quickly. Granted I haven't used Monk on much serious stuff but even at a Training Dummy, I can manage my TP well enough to keep going for quite awhile.

[Detzu]

GL3 makes it seem lopsided (FoF+Twin Snakes+DK = same as Heavy Thrust + Disembowel, so not mentioning) but DRG also has much higher potency on their combos so I wouldn't be surprised at them doing basically similar damage. Like, DRGs typically don't use Fracture anymore because the potency/GCD (220) is actually slightly worse for us than just mashing 123 Full Thrust (680 total; avg ~226). MNK doesn't break more than 200 potency on anything but Demolish and Touch of Death.

How does it actually work? I mean according to the 3 sec tick is demo at 310 potency and ToD 260? Do buffs apply to those DoTs and if you take in account the 27% from GL 3 wouldn't it be at more than 400?
Does it work the same way for DRG?

[Niiro]

If we assume potency increases damage linearly (we always seem to) then yes you can look at it that way.

Buffs that increase all damage (Heavy, TS, FoF, GL) effect DoTs (but not enfeebs from Disembowel/DK that reduce specific physical resistances).

[Falisa]

Outside of pure patchwerk style fights, when as a raid leader I have to consider between DRG and MNK, I would chose DRG. They bring more DPS for Bards, two gap closers, a ranged ability and (i could be wrong on this one) more AOE damage. I think when you bring in fights like Twin, DRG shines more than MNK.

[Niiro]

MNK is far superior at gap-closing, DRG may have 2 skills for it but they're on 90s and 180s recasts while MNK's is 30s.

DRG's AoE damage is.....complicated, Doomspike is amazing when the stars align but it's incredibly hard to use effectively without ideal mob positioning and targeting. RoT would be good but it requires a flank combo, which is fucking impossible to pull off reliably in most AoE situations because shit is constantly moving/turning from hate changing and player movement and even just mobs displacing one another. Without a combo RoT is just 100 potency.

MNK's primary AoEs (Arm of the Destroyer and Rockbreaker) are less damage individually but add on GL and TS and their damage can easily pull ahead. On top of that MNK doesn't have directional requirements for their combos.

In theory DRG's AoE is superior, in practice MNK has the advantage.

[Denmork]

I've personally found DRG to be miles easier to effectively AoE than MNK. Even in with stuff like Garuda X plumes which more or less go untanked I never have a real problem landing HT with next to zero downtime between GCD. With MNK AoD is super low potency and Rockbreaker is a cone, while not as harsh as Doomspike it's still a pain to line up everything just right.

[Icarian]

I've yet to be in a situation where I'm actually needed to do significant AoE damage as Melee.

Garuda EX: We don't ever have DD's kill the feathers, WHM can kill them with 2-3 Holy.

Turn 4: I just down the almost always present odd mob with higher HP than the rest, be it because an AoE didn't hit it or whatever, for the rest of the encounter I focus on Spiners first, never had a problem with burning down the bugs on time.

So really, I've yet to see myself in a situation where more than 3 DD's are needed or you can't AoE down whatever is it that has to be AoE'd plus having someone hit on the mob with the highest HP works pretty well for us.

[Elcura]

I think when you bring in fights like Twin, DRG shines more than MNK.

Definitely not. Depends on who is playing what, but MNK at Twintania is a destroyer of worlds.

[Azurewrath]

My Drg and Mnk are both ilv 83, I've spent about 10 hours in front of target dummies doing calculations, etc, mastering fights, doing actual real non-dummy fights(Havent done twin on either, but all other content), and I've come to the conclusion that both are fairly close in DPS, Monk being slightly higher than DRG.

Monks will raise the damage of other monks so they dont need to DK, but that is a fairly minor DPS increase, since DK and BS have the same potency, all that does is makes sure your openner crits every time, rather than DK that only has a chance to crit. It's something, but not a gigantic game changer

DRGs raise all bards damage by 10%, which is pretty sweet

The biggest flaw with this game though is that almost every single fight that matters has some sort of mechanic that without incredible skill AND incredible luck, it's impossible to keep greased lightning up. If you hit the right move as titan jumps, sometimes greased lightning can be saved. When he spawns bombs, GL can be saved, etc, but there's many situations where it flat out can't be saved. And on the other hand, in those fights where it can be kept up forever, monks may run dry of TP. Possible on drg as well, but its quite a bit tougher from low skill speed

If this happens once or twice in a fight, Dragoon soars into the lead. If it doesn't happen, Dragoon is on par or behind by a tiny amount.

I overall prefer dragoon. I'd rather be 99% Mnk's max dps all the time than be monk at 100% and drop to 70% nonstop

[Judai]

Any Monks ever hit the bombs a couple times to keep GL3 up? Seems like it could help for those couple formations that you actually have to get away from titan on.

[Kainos]

I've yet.to see a mnk get more hate than me on the threat meter.

And aoe doomspike>>>>>>>>