Dual Wield / Maximum haste question

[Kanriel]

So looking at the wiki we have the statement that lowest delay for an attack round cannot be lower than 20% of the combined delay of weapons. How easy is it to hit this cap? If I have a bard and get the haste spell, will I almost certainly hit it?

My thf is using delve earrings and patentia sash, so that's -35% delay, does that mean I can only truly benefit from 45% haste? With gear and the haste spell being 40% of it?

In other words...in any scenario with a bard, are any dual wield items really good to have? I sure seem to be able to notice the effect of marches, so I don't think my math is completely accurate here. And patentia sash sure sells for a pretty penny still, is that rarity more than utility?

[dasva]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Attack_speed

[doctorugh]

Well with the earrings you are actually at -37% delay from DW.

Depending on your bard (instrument+skill) (for example if you had +3 march instrument, and both marches, that would give you 25.2%, combine with haste spell for a total of 40.2). Add in gear (25)and you are at 65.2% haste

Now, Haste and DW are separate calculations so:

{1 - 0.37(DW)} x {1 - 0.652(haste)} = 0.219, you have not hit haste cap in this example.

[JSHidaka]

DW is not additive to the haste is multiplicative,

35 dw(thf should have more) + 26% haste gear + 44 from spells songs/haste = 78% delay reduction

[Kanriel]

Well with the earrings you are actually at -37% delay from DW.

Depending on your bard (instrument+skill) (for example if you had +3 march instrument, and both marches, that would give you 25.2%, combine with haste spell for a total of 40.2). Add in gear (25)and you are at 65.2% haste

Now, Haste and DW are separate calculations so:

{1 - 0.37(DW)} x {1 - 0.652(haste)} = 0.219, you have not hit haste cap in this example.

But if the bard had March+4, I would be at cap, right? And the wiki for march states that +8 is possible, at what +x of march would more double/triple attack beat out DW/haste assuming capped gear haste? +5/6? How common is it to find such a bard? I should ask the ones in my LS what they're at.

[dasva]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/March

March 5 is the highest. And making a ghorn is easy as pie. Even my gimp ass brd mule has one now lol. As far as the first question just follow the link and do the math. It's really going to depend on things like do you have other sources of magical haste. Are you using 1 or both march spells. Are marcato or soul voice involved. The second one not really sure what you mean by beat out haste with capped haste <.<. But assuming you have capped gear and magic haste you will cap total -delay at +11 dual wield on thf. So anything more than that will be wasted (and actually hurt you since it lowers tp)

[Kanriel]

I meant something like the DA earrings would beat out the DW earrings at some point. And reading all over things and doing calculations it sounds like the DW earrings are best in all situations unless I or someone in my group has Haste Samba, and then the DA earrings would be better.

[JSHidaka]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/March

March 5 is the highest. And making a ghorn is easy as pie. Even my gimp ass brd mule has one now lol. As far as the first question just follow the link and do the math. It's really going to depend on things like do you have other sources of magical haste. Are you using 1 or both march spells. Are marcato or soul voice involved. The second one not really sure what you mean by beat out haste with capped haste <.<. But assuming you have capped gear and magic haste you will cap total -delay at +11 dual wield on thf. So anything more than that will be wasted (and actually hurt you since it lowers tp)

You need near 37%.dw to cap delay with gear and magic haste capped....

Did say before dw and haste are multiplicative

[dasva]

You need near 37%.dw to cap delay with gear and magic haste capped....

Did say before dw and haste are multiplicative

36 actually. And 36-25 from traits = 11... I know perfectly well how delay works. But when talking about gearing no one counts natural traits into what they need to add to get something