That's it, I am leaving Coke and going to good old American Budlight.

[Meresgi]

...keep your xenophobic bullshit to yourself.

What the fuck are you talking about? We arnt Aliens!

[Tokitoki]

Keeping with the thread title...

Spoiler: show

[Ashmada]

Bigots really have the best gaydar: I hadn't even noticed the gay couple in the ad personally.


I'd mock your racists, but I know that if they ran an ad in french (or partially in french) north or the linguistic border, the same furore would ensue; if not worse.
(bonus points if they're singing "de vlaamse leeuw")

[ringthree]

It makes me sad to see so many ignorant bigots on the same side as me... Doesn't change the fact that having a national language is the logical and pragmatic thing to do. Bonus: if we make English the national language and kick out people who don't learn it in a reasonable amount of time, can we kick out these idiots who don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'? Nothing more stereotypically ignorant than bitching that people should speak English by people who are so clearly lacking in mastery of it.

When you find yourself surround by ignorant bigots, perhaps you should start wondering why you are among them...

[zoobernut]

Colbert on the commercial:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...-beautiful--ad

Amazing. Would it help to point out to these people who are shunning other languages how many words in the English language were appropriated from other languages?

[kuronosan]

Amazing. Would it help to point out to these people who are shunning other languages how many words in the English language were appropriated from other languages?

Almost all of them.

i gs i nd 2 lrn 2 spk murkin now 2

[Blubbartron]

FYI, I'm just going to ignore the obvious strawman posts. My initial post blatantly said "everyone who is upset over this ad is a bigot" and then moved on to the subject of making English a national language and whether or not that's a good idea (obviously I'm for it). After that, exactly one post addressed the ad again, and it was critiquing design choices in the creation of it. If you can't separate the topic of national language from the topic of bigots upset over this ad, then fuck off. If the topic I'm interested in isn't appropriate for this newly created thread, then I'll fuck off.

Except you're wrong. The other languages were an artistic choice, and that's what made it beautiful. It was Coke's point (not so abstract one at that) that America is beautiful because not only are we accepting of other cultures, people are FREE to speak their own language, have their own heritage, and practice their own faith. They don't HAVE to have a singular unifying principle other than the fact that they are ALL American citizens (and by extension, are Americans).

The fact that you and others so blatantly miss that is what is so infuriating in the first place. Not only are people so misguidedly stupid that they think "America the Beautiful" is our national anthem; not only can they not differentiate between "you're" and "your"; they are so unbelievably racist and nationalist that they can't see that the message being sent is "We're all in this country together". It always has to be "FUCK YOU LIBERAL HIPPY FAGGOT COMMUNISTS TRYING TO TAKE AMERICA AWAY" coming from some dude who thinks native Americans were white with blonde hair and blue eyes.

The unity was in spirit. Too many people in this country think language is unity (ethnocentrists), or appearance is unity (racists), or beliefs are unity (radicalists).

Real unity is a common goal and common desire. In America, the citizens have always had the common desire of being free. It's the rich assholes and super-elite closet racist monkey-fuckers who have you thinking that it's anything else other than that.

Not a single progressive person I know has ever said they wish America was more white, or more Christian, or less migrant, or less atheistic. Most everyone I've ever known always has that same goal in mind - that America was a better place for EVERYONE.

This is a good post. My thoughts:

I agree that people are free to speak whatever language they want. However, I think it benefits them and everyone else in the country if they learn the common language of the land. Not once have I suggested that people should speak English and only English; just that they should know English for the purposes of communication.

Please don't lump me in with the ignorant bigots after misunderstanding what I was saying.

I think you have horribly misunderstood what ethnocentrism is. Ethnocentrism is the belief that one person's culture is superior (automatically) to all others. That goes far above and beyond wanting all people to at least know a common language so everyone can talk to everyone else.

I also don't think there's any propaganda that's making me think what I do. If you try to understand what I'm saying, it should be pretty obvious that I'm working from a simply logical and pragmatic viewpoint. People with a common goal or desire may be united in spirit, but they're not actually united unless they can work together to achieve that common goal. Have you ever tried to work with someone that you can't talk to? It's frustrating beyond measure.

I consider myself progressive, and I don't want America to be more anything except atheistic (again, for purely logical reasons - theists' doctrines are set in stone, making it difficult for them to accept change, which therefore makes them the opposite of progressive). I want America to be a better place for everyone, but sometimes that means acknowledging the hurdles that are making the path to "better" more difficult. One of those hurdles is a growing inability to communicate.

[zoobernut]

It is really bizarre to me to hear someone talk about needing a national language who is a conservative. You cannot speak for smaller government and the powers of the free market while ignoring one situation where the free market and lack of government insight is clearly working. It is in businesses best interests to accommodate everyone. If they appeal to all different ethnicities they sell more products they reach a wider audience. At the same time people are driven to learn English when they come to this country naturally by the free market. If you know English in this country it gets you access to more jobs makes it easier to participate in society etc. Why would you begin to think that government regulation and interference is necessary?

The multilingualism of this country is largely being driven by the world economy and large businesses. Being multilingual is one of the most in demand and valuable skills in the work place in the world now. Are you saying capitalism and the free market are not perfect and need government intervention?

[Ksandra]

a growing inability to communicate.

Source.

[kuronosan]

With all due respect, everything you just posted contradicts itself. I can't concede on my point about language unifying, because language is a large part of culture. Being Hispanic, Spanish is a huge part of my culture as is Spanish cooking. My wife is Russian, and Russian is a huge part of her culture.

So, let's address some of the things you said that make no sense:

I think you have horribly misunderstood what ethnocentrism is.

No, I haven't. Ethnocentrism is the belief that your ethnicity, culture, and way of life is superior to that of someone else's. So how is shoving 100% English down everyone's throat not ethnocentric? How is saying "If you don't speak English you can't communicate" anything but ethnocentric?

just that they should know English for the purposes of communication.

A common misconception in America for misguided people is to think that communication somehow takes place with only spoken language.

If you try to understand what I'm saying, it should be pretty obvious that I'm working from a simply logical and pragmatic viewpoint.

Your problem isn't that you aren't intelligent. Your problem is that you're applying A+B logic to a complex situation. Humans can't be subjected to A+B logic, because that's how computers think. Every human being is different. Wanting to barrel them all into a simple, easy-to-understand construct defeats the purpose of being human. If you truly subscribe to philosophical thinking, you would know that.

People with a common goal or desire may be united in spirit, but they're not actually united unless they can work together to achieve that common goal. Have you ever tried to work with someone that you can't talk to? It's frustrating beyond measure.

Yes. My mail-carrier is deaf, and I've had customers and patients who were deaf. I can't speak sign language, but I know some signs. I do my best to indicate or spell out what it is I need to communicate. Part of the reason I do that is because I am at the advantage of communication. I'm in a country that speaks English. Demeaning someone because they don't and forcing them to learn reeks of ethnocentrism and superiority complexes. It's my responsibility as a citizen to educate others. Not make them feel like shit for coming here.

I consider myself progressive, and I don't want America to be more anything except atheistic (again, for purely logical reasons - theists' doctrines are set in stone, making it difficult for them to accept change, which therefore makes them the opposite of progressive).

The first half of your sentence is invalidated by the second half.

sometimes that means acknowledging the hurdles that are making the path ... more difficult

No. Sometimes that means acknowledging that people are human, and that only by educating them and helping them along the way will you achieve your goals as well as theirs.

You are anything but progressive. A real progressive would want to move the world forward so that we all get there. You're acting more like the country won't be better until these dirty immigrants get with the times and learn English.

I'll leave you with this:

making it difficult for them to accept change, which therefore makes them the opposite of progressive

And America could meet immigrants halfway by learning some words to help facilitate communication. You are the opposite of progressive, because you are failing to accept that America is changing from a country founded by slave-owning uppity well-to-do English assholes into a country that is a haven for people of all ethnicities, faiths, and beliefs.

That is true American spirit. I'm so sorry you've lost sight of that.

[Serra]

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for out of this story~

[archibaldcrane]

It's definitely to an immigrant's benefit to learn English to be successful in American society, but if they don't it's no skin off my back and I don't want my government requiring them to.

[NynJa]

Quebec is going far above and beyond simply having a national language. I'm not saying that all restaurants can only provide menus in English or anything like that. But I would bet someone from Quebec would be extremely pissed if they tried to order in a restaurant and found the server couldn't speak French. I'm looking at this from the perspective of people interacting with people. Quebec is trying their damndest to preserve a culture in a country that overwhelmingly doesn't want it (from my perception of Canada).

Do more research buddy, because Quebec has gone WAY past culture preservation and is attempting to eradicate anything non-quebecois.

-hospital patients turned away for speaking english
-blood donors being screened for their background, and being declined if not quebecois
-two govt workers were fired for speaking creole (which is an altered french) amongst each other in a breakroom

[Tokitoki]

Have you ever tried to work with someone that you can't talk to? It's frustrating beyond measure.

I've worked with Columbian, Portugese, Haitian, Spanish (from Spain), Mexican, French, Italians, Egyptians, Indians, Iranian, French Algerian, Lebanese.. maybe a few others with varying degrees of understanding of the English language. While it can be harder at times, and I agree that it would certainly be easier to communicate and work together if we both spoke the same language, it could always be worked out. I cannot agree with deporting people after X amount of time for not learning the English language.

Our ancestors have come from varying places across the world. My family has mostly come from Ireland, the most recent being my Grandfather, but also have ties to the UK, Italy, and Germany. Similarly, I'm sure there are people within this thread who are Hispanic, Middle Eastern, etc. Who says we should not also learn a second language?

In Denmark they speak Danish, but the people my age (25) also know English as a second language. In France, they learn English as a second language. In Spain, they learn English as a second language. While this supports that other nations could learn English as a second language, why are we one of the few first-world countries that does not properly teach its youth a second language? Hell, my French teacher in high school was born in Italy, learned French, Spanish, and English. She then moved to America and learned American Sign Language. My other French teacher taught English in Japan.

Why can't I speak another language more fluently? It is certainly partly my own fault, but it does not help that we do not start learning a second language until the end of middle school (7th/8th grade). Reform the education system and maybe we would not have the people with such poor grammar screaming about how the commercial isn't American, but complaining a language was not represented instead.

[Ksandra]

It's definitely to an immigrant's benefit to learn English to be successful in American society, but if they don't it's no skin off my back and I don't want my government requiring them to.

This is exactly why I consider blubber's stance of it being "a growing inability to communicate" suspect. People are just naturally going to want to do what they can to communicate so they can, you know, get shit done in their life they need to get done.

That could be learning the language completely to get a high paying job or it could be just enough to say "deposit" because they are older and their younger kids take care of them.

But I guarantee neither are not going to have a negative impact on our lives.

[ronin sparthos]

It is really bizarre to me to hear someone talk about needing a national language who is a conservative. You cannot speak for smaller government and the powers of the free market while ignoring one situation where the free market and lack of government insight is clearly working. It is in businesses best interests to accommodate everyone. If they appeal to all different ethnicities they sell more products they reach a wider audience. At the same time people are driven to learn English when they come to this country naturally by the free market. If you know English in this country it gets you access to more jobs makes it easier to participate in society etc. Why would you begin to think that government regulation and interference is necessary?

The multilingualism of this country is largely being driven by the world economy and large businesses. Being multilingual is one of the most in demand and valuable skills in the work place in the world now. Are you saying capitalism and the free market are not perfect and need government intervention?

Consider it a dash of fascism brought on by years of militarism, hoo-rah patriotism and American exceptionalism.

[Tajin]

Mission completada The Coca-Cola Company. slowclap.gif

[notorious bum]

It is really bizarre to me to hear someone talk about needing a national language who is a conservative. You cannot speak for smaller government and the powers of the free market while ignoring one situation where the free market and lack of government insight is clearly working. It is in businesses best interests to accommodate everyone. If they appeal to all different ethnicities they sell more products they reach a wider audience. At the same time people are driven to learn English when they come to this country naturally by the free market. If you know English in this country it gets you access to more jobs makes it easier to participate in society etc. Why would you begin to think that government regulation and interference is necessary?

The multilingualism of this country is largely being driven by the world economy and large businesses. Being multilingual is one of the most in demand and valuable skills in the work place in the world now. Are you saying capitalism and the free market are not perfect and need government intervention?

Precisely. I hated the Coke commercial when it came on, but for all the reasons of them being Coke and what they represent. The simpletons only operate via 1-dimensional narratives that their slave masters feed them to keep them occupied with fighting the brown-skinnedly villains.

That commercial is basic business advertising and has been executed so many times before by Coke, the bigots in-charge of the entertainment outlets just have it so easy when it comes to ratings these days. It must be nice to be able to sell such an easy product with an shelf-date of forever.

[Ashmada]

Do more research buddy, because Quebec has gone WAY past culture preservation and is attempting to eradicate anything non-quebecois.

-hospital patients turned away for speaking english
-blood donors being screened for their background, and being declined if not quebecois
-two govt workers were fired for speaking creole (which is an altered french) amongst each other in a breakroom

All that sounds familiar. Québec: the new Flanders. (not that one)
In both cases, it's the vicious and stupid lashing out of a culture that knows it's dying.

[Blubbartron]

With all due respect, everything you just posted contradicts itself. I can't concede on my point about language unifying, because language is a large part of culture. Being Hispanic, Spanish is a huge part of my culture as is Spanish cooking. My wife is Russian, and Russian is a huge part of her culture.

No, I haven't. Ethnocentrism is the belief that your ethnicity, culture, and way of life is superior to that of someone else's. So how is shoving 100% English down everyone's throat not ethnocentric? How is saying "If you don't speak English you can't communicate" anything but ethnocentric?

A common misconception in America for misguided people is to think that communication somehow takes place with only spoken language.

Yes. My mail-carrier is deaf, and I've had customers and patients who were deaf. I can't speak sign language, but I know some signs. I do my best to indicate or spell out what it is I need to communicate. Part of the reason I do that is because I am at the advantage of communication. I'm in a country that speaks English. Demeaning someone because they don't and forcing them to learn reeks of ethnocentrism and superiority complexes. It's my responsibility as a citizen to educate others. Not make them feel like shit for coming here.

You are anything but progressive. A real progressive would want to move the world forward so that we all get there. You're acting more like the country won't be better until these dirty immigrants get with the times and learn English.

And America could meet immigrants halfway by learning some words to help facilitate communication. You are the opposite of progressive, because you are failing to accept that America is changing from a country founded by slave-owning uppity well-to-do English assholes into a country that is a haven for people of all ethnicities, faiths, and beliefs.

That is true American spirit. I'm so sorry you've lost sight of that.

I was hoping my first response would make it clear, but you've gone and done it again. I'm not the enemy just because I think differently than you do. Seriously try to understand what I'm saying instead of making irrational leaps and blatant strawman arguments.

Language is not part of culture. It's simply the tool used to communicate ideas between people, and then those people form beliefs, traditions, and achievements that make up culture. You can't have culture without language, but which language is used is irrelevant to that culture. Two Russians with perfect fluency in English are no less Russian if they end up preferring to communicate in English. They would be less Russian if they gave up the Russian traditions or beliefs they grew up with.

For the last time, I'm not trying to say America should be "All English All The Time". I'm saying all people should know English, and after that I don't give a fuck what they do.

Yes, I fucked up and said "talk to". My bad. Now stop playing semantics. Obviously I'm concerned with communication, and you can't do either written or verbal communication with someone who doesn't know your language. As far as your mail-carrier, I'm sure he knows English and if you didn't know any sign language, you could write him a note. When someone doesn't know your language at all, communication grinds to a halt. I'm not demeaning anyone by saying that it would be better if everyone knew English as a common language. If I lived in France, I would say everyone should learn French. It's pragmatism, not nationalism.

I'm not even going to bother addressing your insulting insinuations about why you think I'm not a progressive. I'll simply repeat that I'm not your enemy, and you should try harder to understand what I'm saying, instead of assuming that I'm an ignorant bigot because I have one idea that is commonly held by ignorant bigots (for completely different reasons).