Bill Nye vs Ken Ham creationism/evolution debate

[Khajit]

Problem is the proponents of Christendom don't see their religion as social studies but a statement on the metaphysics of the universe. That flood was literal, those dinosaurs were living 5000 years ago records of other cultures be damned, the world is destined to be swept up in prophecy and the second coming of Christ. It's all literal. Every passage of it.

Christianity is not like Islam or any of the other fraudulent religions but the inerrant word of God so why shouldn't pervade every level of society?

You cannot reason with Biblical literalists. These are the same people who jump through hoops to justify God's homicidal rampages and will defend concepts like slavery as being just because God said it was just.

Well yeah that was what I was implying. Those sorts of people have enough power in America to screw over any academics on the subject presumably via making Christianity encompass 99% of the class instead of being in it's own section with the rest.

I swear i found out the other day that there's a rule saying treat all foreigners and guests as if they were your people too. I really should look it up to note where it is because that rule alone fucks over so many arguments.
At the very least a slave that can only work during X hours with days off, must be well treated both mentally and physically, properly fed/sheltered, can't be hit etc etc etc isn't going to stick around unless it's willingly.(provided they adhere to every single last rule.)

[shepardG]

You guys ready for some more facepalm?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messa...ve-in-evolutio

I don't think these people were holding up these signs. I'm probably wrong, as there are alot of stupid folks in the world, but I feel like they had their picture taken with a blank notebook and some fuck tard shopped in the writing...

[ronin sparthos]

Still not sure why it matters what someone believes in so long as it doesn't hold back society as a whole. Is religion holding back our country? Only in the sense that congressmen know if they say "Jesus" most of the south will foam at the mouth...but money in politics are what is holding back everything. Religion is just a method for the repubs to garner support.

Fucking hell, with the internet nowadays it's so easy for people to only believe in what they want and never look at anything else everyone is closeminded as fuck, not just religious types.

ITT: People arguing over shit that doesn't really matter and trying to prove they are smarter then the person above them.

So teaching people that the world is coming to an immediate end which will culminate in the return of a legendary hero who is actually divine isn't detrimental to the country as a whole? Where have you been for literally every social skirmish in America? Your beliefs fuel who you are and if you believe that God creates hurricanes on his spare time to punish the gays or to silence the liberals who challenge the supernatural order, it has effects in the real world.

Religion isn't inherently dangerous though I may disagree with the presuppositions but how you use it is everything. From what we've seen, there are too many people who hide behind ignorance and attempt to impose their theocratic state on others.

[Odin'sLaw]

i don't know how bill Nye didn't punch him during the Q & A "there's one book that answers these questions" Sorry Ken Ham i don't read Fiction :/

[quannum]

Fucking hell, with the internet nowadays it's so easy for people to only believe in what they want and never look at anything else everyone is closeminded as fuck, not just religious types.

should we teach astrology? how about alchemy? You know, to be open-minded about the possibilities.

[Odin'sLaw]

should we teach astrology? how about alchemy? You know, to be open-minded about the possibilities.

can i take both courses? to learn is to be my good man (i want to be the fool's gold king!)

[Day]

I would take an astrology class so fucking fast.

[ronin sparthos]

i don't know how bill Nye didn't punch him during the Q & A "there's one book that answers these questions" Sorry Ken Ham i don't read Fiction :/

He's right though. That book is the Baghavad Gita. Or is it the Kojiki? Or is it the Analects of Confucius? Or maybe the Tipitaka? Hm, perhaps the Kalpa Sūtra?

Who am I kidding, no one takes Eastern thought seriously. It's all about these monotheistic, take over the world schemes.

[Tyrath]

The guy says he was at the debate and asked people to send messages..

[arus2001]

should we teach astrology? how about alchemy? You know, to be open-minded about the possibilities.

I'd be curious to know the cost of a human soul on the free market, myself.

[Odin'sLaw]

I'd be curious to know the cost of a human soul on the free market, myself.

we making a Philosophers Stone?

[ronin sparthos]

An American life is worth around ~5million according to risk analysts. I'm sure we can get some cheaper souls mail to order from China though.

[Waraji]

we making a Philosophers Stone?

Cuz if we are... I know a guy...

An American life is worth around ~5million according to risk analysts. I'm sure we can get some cheaper souls mail to order from China though.

Where exactly is this human life coming from? Cuz 5mil for some back woods hick, I don't know man.

[quannum]

I'll get Hudson Hawk on the case

[Jaybar]

Except we had the bible before we had the Dead Sea scrolls. You can't claim to have original copies of the bible when you didn't even have the oldest (unknown at the time) versions. It is a book that has been passed down over and over and over.

Your claim is still false, and it is getting weaker. Also, don't imply that I am confused. You made a direct claim to originality, either defend the claim (you can't) or admit you are wrong (you won't).

Again I say, this thread is so god damn stupid.

**I looked back at my post and I realized I didn't make reference to the current scrolls and it does look like I meant manuscripts from the 20th C. BCE. **

Ancient writings - the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the Targums (Aramaic translation of the Tanakh during the Babylonian exile), and the Septuagint (Greek translation of Hebrew Bible) - can all be found in these ancient manuscripts that have been uncovered in the recent centuries, with the Dead Sea Scrolls constituting parts of almost all the Tanakh except one book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations

From the 9th century to the 15th century, Jewish scholars, today known as Masoretes, compared the text of all known biblical manuscripts in an effort to create a unified, standardized text.

The autographs, the Greek manuscripts written by the original authors, have not survived. Scholars surmise the original Greek text from the versions that do survive. The three main textual traditions of the Greek New Testament are sometimes called the Alexandrian text-type (generally minimalist), the Byzantine text-type (generally maximalist), and the Western text-type (occasionally wild). Together they comprise most of the ancient manuscripts.

Most variants among the manuscripts are minor, such as alternative spelling, alternative word order, the presence or absence of an optional definite article ("the"), and so on. Occasionally, a major variant happens when a portion of a text wasor variants tend to be easier to correct. Examples of major variants are the endings of Mark, the Pericope Adulteræ, the Comma Johanneum, and the Western version of Acts.

Bible translations incorporating modern textual criticism usually begin with the masoretic text [Tanakh], but also take into account possible variants from all available ancient versions. The received text of the Christian New Testament is in Koine Greek [Septuagint],[8] and nearly all translations are based upon the Greek text.

Today, most critical editions of the Greek New Testament, such as UBS4 and NA27, consider the Alexandrian text-type corrected by papyri, to be the Greek text that is closest to the original autographs.

The manuscripts are there to offer textual criticism and help with linguistic translation - the older the more reliable - and are scrutinized against current translations. The bolded above is what I meant by "originals", ancient manuscripts - not the autographs or first accounts of the written Bible.

My "argument" was that there isn't some telephone fuck-uppery going on with translations. We found ancient scrolls and compared them to what we currently have. If there was some major religion-altering screw-up, it would be everywhere. Instead we find "minor changes to grammar"

[myreality]

Had to stop watching after this.......

[Meresgi]

So teaching people that the world is coming to an immediate end which will culminate in the return of a legendary hero who is actually divine isn't detrimental to the country as a whole?

Are you using Google translate or babelfish to read the forum or something? I didn't say anything like that.

Your beliefs fuel who you are

They do, but any sensible person will know that their beliefs influence themselves, and not the world around them. That's the whole thing wrong with people in general, everyone thinks that everyone else should follow what they think.

Like Xbox instead of PS3? FUCK YOU FAGGOT
Windows over OSX? FUCKING MORON
God and not Atheism? FUCKING READ IDIOT

It's just how mankind works, it's fucking stupid, and obviously the only solution is nuclear holocaust.

should we teach astrology? how about alchemy? You know, to be open-minded about the possibilities.

Why the fuck not? Seriously, if people want to believe in tentacle squid monsters from Jupiter..who are you to say they shouldn't? I'm not saying devote an entire curriculum to it, but touch on everything and encourage young people to go out and decide on their own what they believe in.

[BerenTebogo]

Are you using Google translate or babelfish to read the forum or something? I didn't say anything like that.



They do, but any sensible person will know that their beliefs influence themselves, and not the world around them. That's the whole thing wrong with people in general, everyone thinks that everyone else should follow what they think.

Like Xbox instead of PS3? FUCK YOU FAGGOT
Windows over OSX? FUCKING MORON
God and not Atheism? FUCKING READ IDIOT

It's just how mankind works, it's fucking stupid, and obviously the only solution is nuclear holocaust.



Why the fuck not? Seriously, if people want to believe in tentacle squid monsters from Jupiter..who are you to say they shouldn't? I'm not saying devote an entire curriculum to it, but touch on everything and encourage young people to go out and decide on their own what they believe in.

I believe the implication was "Should we teach ... as science?"

To which the answer is a blindingly powerful FUCK NO.

And yes, believing the above nonsense is science, or based in fact, does in fact hurt society. If you lack the critical thinking and reasoning skills to tell science from absurdities and you vote / chair PTA boards / influence youth who aren't your own children / etc, you are actively worsening society as a whole.

If you want to have your palm read by someone who is a scorpio while Chiron is in the house of Jupiter and stop off for some acupuncture after, fine, whatever as long as those silly beliefs don't translate into your political beliefs or ideals passed on to children.

[Blubbartron]

I believe the implication was "Should we teach ... as science?"

To which the answer is a blindingly powerful FUCK NO.

And yes, believing the above nonsense is science, or based in fact, does in fact hurt society. If you lack the critical thinking and reasoning skills to tell science from absurdities and you vote / chair PTA boards / influence youth who aren't your own children / etc, you are actively worsening society as a whole.

If you want to have your palm read by someone who is a scorpio while Chiron is in the house of Jupiter and stop off for some acupuncture after, fine, whatever as long as those silly beliefs don't translate into your political beliefs or ideals passed on to children.

Fucking this. Religion requires believing things without evidence, and once you not only allow this, but promote it as some kind of fucking virtue, the floodgates are opened. Anything can be justified at that point. It irreparably damages the ability of the person to think rationally, because the brain is incapable of compartmentalizing beliefs completely. They might be able to override the fantastical thinking with effort, when they want to, but what about all the other decisions that get made subconsciously?

It should be illegal to indoctrinate children. Try getting an 18 year old who has never been told god is absolutely real to believe, and they'll stare as if being addressed by a crazy person. Or laugh. Both are appropriate responses.

[Priran]

Had to stop watching after this.......

http://bucket.bluegartr.com/ddd2ee2f...4a9d67fcd2.jpg

Was that before or after "a fish in a pitch black cave which evolves to become blind has lost the ability to do something it previously could"? because I wouldn't want you to miss out on that gem