Kansas Really Damn Close To Legalizing Anti-Gay Discrimination

[Xajii]

Gredival's post is a pretty good summary about the crux of the issue - rights will always infringe upon others. Law is about deciding which rights are more important. Religion is slowly starting to lose that battle.

[Serra]

Seriously. When it comes to oppression it's okay because it's the word of God. When it comes to the law of the land, fuck what Jesus said, we're going with the Bible.

This is one of the things that's so infuriating to me -- these people who use their religious beliefs to bully, oppress, and mistreat people, it's like, they find one passage in the Bible that justifies their position, and so they can completely ignore so much else of what it teaches. And now, the number of people who criticize the Pope and say he's wrong for saying we shouldn't judge others is just mind-boggling.

[Aksannyi]

What's sad is that it's a loud vocal minority of Christians like that. I went to Catholic school from Kindergarten all the way through high school and I never was given any message of hate through it all. It was all about being a good person and not being a judgmental prick. I think out of all the Christians I know, only one of them is vehemently anti-gay. The rest are basically of the belief that sin or not, it's god's place to judge, and if he wants to forgive then that's his deal.

It's always the loudest people giving the rest a bad name though. I don't identify as Christian but I find it hate to oppose them because many of my family members and friends are Christian and they only try to live good lives. If more people would take on the "mind my own business and do my own thing" mentality then the world would be a better place.

Sadly, a core tenet of some of the Christian religions is to spread the word of god, which involves attempting to turn perceived sinners. But let's not get things confused, Christianity is a proselytizing religion, but atheism (while not a religion by strict definition) does plenty of its own, which I find hilariously hypocritical. (Don't try to tell me that there are no atheists who try to convince people that a belief in a higher power is stupid, I've experienced it myself.)

My general philosophy on life is that if people want to believe in god or not, just don't be a dick and you're fine in my book. I don't care if you believe in god or not, but please don't try to convince me that what I believe is wrong, and that goes both ways. Which really isn't entirely on topic to the conversation, but I felt the need to clarify that it is actually a minority, they're just especially loud in some places.

[Melena]

I'm an atheist but I'm also in the camp of believe what you want so long as it doesn't harm anything and you don't force your beliefs on me. Though I will laugh at you if you try saying that God spoke to you and told you if you do X, Y will happen like that NFL prospect who left the combine cause God told him if he left the Seahawks will draft you.

[Byrthnoth]

Atheists are not required to inform "believers" of their stupidity, but some are overachievers. There is nothing hypocritical about that.

Atheists are not people that "totally don't believe in God but you can believe what you want, man." They believe there is no God and there is no further uniformity among the group.

[BaneTheBrawler]

are you implying that one cannot simply judge an entire group based on the actions of a minority among that group, byrthnoth?

because we don't take kindly to people who imply that one cannot simply judge an entire group based on the actions of a minority among that group, around here.

[Blubbartron]

Atheists are not required to inform "believers" of their stupidity, but some are overachievers. There is nothing hypocritical about that.

Atheists are not people that "totally don't believe in God but you can believe what you want, man." They believe there is no God and there is no further uniformity among the group.

Technically they simply don't believe in any gods. There's a difference between that and the unprovable belief that there definitely are none.

The more you know.

[Aksannyi]

No, atheism is not organized, which is precisely why I said that it doesn't count by the strictest definition of religion. However, atheists going out of their way to impose their disbelief in a god (or gods) over anyone who does is kind of the exact same fucking thing as a religious person telling you about the "good word of Jesus Christ."

I have zero respect for someone who is religious who tries to push their beliefs on me, and exactly the same level of respect for an atheist who does the same. What difference does it make what someone else believes in (as long as they keep it to themselves)? What difference does it make to someone who is religious that someone is atheist and vice versa? Both are trying to convince the other of something, so how about leaving each other the fuck alone and agreeing to disagree? Because you're never going to convince someone in either case.

[quannum]

hey look, it's the both sides argument.

[kuronosan]

I'm Frozen with delight.

[Aksannyi]

It's fine that none of you see that atheism has become exactly what they hate, which is a band of people who go out of their way to try to force their beliefs on others. Whether this is organized is irrelevant, honestly. Pushing your beliefs on others doesn't have to stem from an organized religion/cult/whatever. You all seem to hate it so much when people do it to you, so I find it both hilarious and sad that atheists have begun doing the same thing they loathe.

That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject. You can argue with me all you want, but what it comes down to is this: in this very thread, I've seen countless non-religious people put down religion, say it's stupid, and say anyone who follows religion is stupid. The ravenous posters on this forum will devour anyone alive who claims that they believe in any higher power or entity, with a whole host of disparaging remarks, and a whole heap of "but you shouldn't" and "you should" and - here's the kicker - telling people what to believe.

Whether you want to call it proselytizing or not, fine. But there are very few atheists I've met who aren't as vocal about their disdain for the religious and working on "changing the minds of the misguided" as the religious people they happen to loathe.

[Waraji]

which is a band of people who go out of their way to try to force their beliefs on others.

I'm sorry, how does this pertain to the topic at hand though? One could probably count the number of open Atheist congressmen with two hands. I know we're all gone off the tracks, but lets stay a little bit more on topic.

There is no Atheist agenda in the United States Political system that is trying to push an Anti-Religious doctrine on its citizens. The problem is, Religious politicians, which is hardly a vocal minority, trying to push laws that clearly favor one sub-group of citizens over others, devout vs non-devout / non-religious.

I'm an atheist, and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my breath on trying to "turn" a religious person.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm sorry, how does this pertain to the topic at hand though? One could probably count the number of open Atheist congressmen with zero hands

ftfy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3944108.html

[Xno Kappa]

Beat me to it.

[Waraji]

lol nice.

Reading it now.

Edit:

This passage more eloquently puts what I was trying to originally say, before I edited it to fuck.

"Whether we recognize it or not, Americans are held captive to the will of religious right leaders who remind us of our inferior position by using the power of government to enforce laws that put truth claims about religion in front of us at every turn,"

[kuronosan]

It's fine that none of you see that Christianity has become exactly what it hates, which is a band of people who go out of their way to try to force their beliefs on others. Whether this is organized is irrelevant, honestly. Pushing your beliefs on others doesn't have to stem from an organized religion/cult/whatever. You all seem to hate it so much when people do it to you, so I find it both hilarious and sad that Christians have begun doing the same thing they loathe.

That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject. You can argue with me all you want, but what it comes down to is this: in this very thread, I've seen countless religious people put down another belief system, say it's stupid, and say anyone who doesn't follow their religion is stupid. The ravenous posters on this forum will devour anyone alive who claims that they believe in any higher power or entity other than Jesus, with a whole host of disparaging remarks, and a whole heap of "but you shouldn't" and "you should" and - here's the kicker - telling people what to believe.

Whether you want to call it proselytizing or not, fine. But there are very few Christians I've met who aren't as vocal about their disdain for the non-conformers and working on "changing the minds of the misguided" as the non-religious people they happen to loathe.

Wow. It does work both ways.

[Kohan]

Whether you want to call it proselytizing or not, fine. But there are very few atheists I've met who aren't as vocal about their disdain for the religious and working on "changing the minds of the misguided" as the religious people they happen to loathe.

What types of comments do they make? I must wonder. I imagine I would find many of them justified, unless they were merely meant to irritate, especially considering that the comment I've quoted successfully triggered one of my fiercest pet peeves.

I, personally, detest every case wherein ignorance associated with religion has uselessly influenced politics. Abortion, birth control, stem cells, right to die, evolution—none of these things should be labeled unacceptable. I would say, without regret, that far-right religious "ethics," mixed with power, result in the sort of policy blockades that hold back progress—particularly the scientific sort, but not exclusively.

I also utterly loathe when someone says that an adherent to factual information is equivalent to an evangelist. It an extremely shallow and anti-intellectual comment—a cop-out of the highest order. Besides superficial similarities, such as a great passion for whatever it is they speak of, one is based in quantifiable information, and the other is based in stories that cannot be proven. The latter will never be more important. If you are to rely on logic and rationality, you cannot seriously integrate religion.

This is not to say that I cannot tolerate anyone who adheres to any religion at all. I can, so long as they do not force their religion on impressionable minds—children, the uneducated poor, the mentally disabled, and so on—and so long as they do not let their belief system influence their politics. The moment they do the former, they have potentially permanently altered someone's outlook on the world and ability to think critically—something I am not keen to forgive. As for the latter, it results in the kinds of political nonsense aforementioned, and I find that absolutely intolerable.

[kuronosan]

Yay I agree with Kohan on something.

[Kohan]

Yay I agree with Kohan on something.

I am fairly sure that the only thing I once ferociously fought with you on was abortion, and I think your mind has changed about that in the time since, but I could be mistaken.

[kuronosan]

That depends, I still fully support the woman's right to choose but still think it's quite a dick move to not give the husband input. I still think input should be given if it's not a marital relationship but care significantly less what the outcome is. It's her choice, even if I don't agree with it.

A man, on the other hand, should be able to say "ey fuck you" if he doesn't want the baby but the woman wants to keep it. It's only fair.

For me I might be insulted or offended if I want to keep the child and she doesn't, but it ain't my body it's growing in. I'd have to either move on or respect it.