Internet Service News (US ISPs are bad and should feel bad)

[Cream Soda]

I don't get it. Do Americans not like their electric companies?

Duke Energy/Florida Power is pretty shit
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...o-says/2134287

[Serra]

I don't get it. Do Americans not like their electric companies?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's more of a discussion of the lack of choice -- libertarians don't want government involvement, they want the market to decide, with electric, there is no market. The reason there's no choice though is because laying power lines is expensive and it doesn't make sense to offer a choice. The thing is, like has been brought up, most people do not have a choice when it comes to internet either, so it's already that way.

[Melena]

So this friend of a friend's whole argument is that telecom's should not be required to run fiber everywhere and it must be your fault if you are dissatisfied with your service and that they will use these new regulations to fuck everybody. Yet when I ask for actual facts and not personal opinion of why this is bad, they go back to just saying they already did, which was just personal opinions.

[Quicklet]

So this friend of a friend's whole argument is that telecom's should not be required to run fiber everywhere and it must be your fault if you are dissatisfied with your service and that they will use these new regulations to fuck everybody. Yet when I ask for actual facts and not personal opinion of why this is bad, they go back to just saying they already did, which was just personal opinions.

Does this person think that ISPs should be able to block competitors from running fiber in an area? Because that's what they've been trying (with some success up until this decision) to do. Anyone who doesn't believe that the cable companies brought this upon themselves by having some of the most reviled customer service and business practices in the country is in a delusion.

[kuronosan]

I've tried explaining that. All I get is "blah blah big gubmint" or "yadda yadda stifling innovation".

[Melena]

Does this person think that ISPs should be able to block competitors from running fiber in an area? Because that's what they've been trying (with some success up until this decision) to do. Anyone who doesn't believe that the cable companies brought this upon themselves by having some of the most reviled customer service and business practices in the country is in a delusion.

They refuse to answer. They resorted to the whole you are right i hope you sleep better now and that everything will be a utopia, as well as another linking me a picture explaining cognitive dissonance. The irony of which was not lost on me.

[Corrderio]

So in layman's terms, what does this mean? ISPs can't offer different speeds for different prices?

Also fucking ROFL @ that Verizon post. I never saw a company get that butthurt.

[kuronosan]

So in layman's terms, what does this mean? ISPs can't offer different speeds for different prices?

Also fucking ROFL @ that Verizon post. I never saw a company get that butthurt.

No, it means they can't prioritize traffic based on money or payments. Tiered service is a thing that is going away because of fiber and they know it, which is why they wanted this to fail.

If it did, then it would have made it easier for them to lobby states to prevent companies like Google from gaining a foothold.

[Corrderio]

Ah I see. I live in South Dakota so I doubt I'll see fiber here anytime soon.

[Tricen]

Pretty much comcast is like hey yo netflix, you get a lot of traffic. It'd be a shame if your site suddenly became super laggy and loading times were ridiculous. Netflix is like u wot m8? And comcast is like pay is money or your site will never load.

[Gredival]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's more of a discussion of the lack of choice -- libertarians don't want government involvement, they want the market to decide, with electric, there is no market. The reason there's no choice though is because laying power lines is expensive and it doesn't make sense to offer a choice. The thing is, like has been brought up, most people do not have a choice when it comes to internet either, so it's already that way.

Yes electricity is a natural monopoly, which has resulted in the government granting actual monopoly and regulating it appropriately.

Internet service is sort of worse. The reality is that in a bunch of places there are just dormant fiber lines ready. But the ISPs fight tooth and nail to make sure these lines stay dormant and aren't sold/leased to other competitors who could make them charge actual reasonable rates for service.

ADDITIONALLY, there is a question about whether the big companies are piggy backing off the benefit of their telephone monopolies. Carriers have carrier-of-last-resort obligations to serve certain geographic regions regardless of the cost to ensure that all areas are covered by phone service as a public utility. Carriers get certain benefits in exchange for this obligation.

These lines are being converted to use fiber to deliver voice communication (aim is to be done by 2019) rather than the current copper system because of a bunch of economical reasons (the network is degrading and it's hard to repair and replace after disaster like at Fire Island NY, or it's hard to maintain the old equipment and find technicians that can handle it).

So why should they get to utilizes that monopoly-compensated infrastructure to sell a free market service like they paid to put down that infrastructure in a free market? They are already being compensated so therefore they technically shouldn't have the right of profit.

[Gredival]

So this friend of a friend's whole argument is that telecom's should not be required to run fiber everywhere

With a few exceptions, they are already doing this themselves as part of the IP transition.

http://www.fcc.gov/blog/ip-transition-starting-now

The reality of it is that they have to maintain phone networks out of their bargained-for carrier-of-last-resort obligations, and they have economic incentive to switch these networks over to fiber. But they would love to be able to say they are only switching networks provide better service because of the free market and how it's evidence they shouldn't be regulated.

[kuronosan]

All I'm hearing now is that this is a loss for citizens and a win for big business.

How??

[Blubbartron]

All I'm hearing now is that this is a loss for citizens and a win for big business.

How??

Misinformation campaigns.

[Gredival]

a win for big business.

I'm sure that's why Verizon is so salty.

[notorious bum]

The dress is blue and gold and Obama is a muslim communist, that's how.

[enzan]

Working on a last minute project for Ethics in IT class I came across this gem below in the AT&T code of ethics.

VIII. Fair Dealing

We have a history of succeeding through honest business competition. We do not seek competitive advantages through illegal or unethical business practices. Each employee, officer and director should endeavor to deal fairly with the Company's customers, service providers, suppliers, competitors and employees. No employee, officer or director should take unfair advantage of anyone through manipulation, concealment, abuse of privileged information, misrepresentation of material facts, or any unfair dealing practice.

Oh the irony. I also attempted to read through Comcast's code of ethics, but was overcome rage and the urge to throw my monitor out the window so I had to stop.

[kuronosan]

I'm getting really tired if hearing about how this will stifle innovation.

[Serra]

It's a loss for citizens and will stifle innovation in the sense that companies will no longer invest in developing fast lanes and content providers won't be able to buy access to a fast lane. However, no part of this says that suddenly our internet is going to become faster. For the most part, this ruling does nothing to change the fact that ISPs are still going to be shitty, still have monopolies, and largely still have no reason to develop better infrastructure.

[Necronus]

Let the Obamanet posts begin.

Have already had "IT professionals" tell me this is the end of freedom as we know it.

My friend is the head IT person at his company. He literally sent me a text out of nowhere Thursday that said, "Well, that's the end of free internet".