Ukraine Protest

[Callisto]

Wait, so they don't have a right to declare their sovereignty?

Seriously, help me out here. Why can Israel land grab and it's fine because fuck Palestinians but Crimea can't say "fuck Ukraine"?

It's because of what led to the declaration. This was not an established group of Crimeans who decided they wanted to secede. A well-armed, well-trained group of 'unidentified'(see: Russian) soldiers took over government buildings, the existing government of Crimea was forcefully removed, they appointed a guy well-known to not be more than a gangster as the prime minister without an open election, then declared sovereignty/annexation by Russia.

[Andalusian girls]

Last I looked, which was admittedly like 2 weeks ago, I think Russia's stock market and the rubel have not been doing well lately. Also, in regard to it being their choice.. Not sure how anyone can think it was a legit election with numbers that are in the 95-97% range. Generally, elections over 70% are considered to be rigged (unless it's an election for who loves kittens or something..).

yo fuck kittens

[Andalusian girls]

but exactly, only the most naive of political observers would accept such a farcical result, even excluding the neon-sign "IMMINENT COERCION & CORRUPTION" circumstances

[Outlaw]

I just found out the real reason Russia wanted to take over Crimea:

https://www.google.com/search?q=crim...=isch&imgdii=_

Seriously though. Some bit's of a New York Times article I found bothersome:

In an emotional address steeped in years of resentment and bitterness at perceived slights from the West, Mr. Putin made it clear that Russia’s patience for post-Cold War accommodation, much diminished of late, had finally been exhausted. Speaking to the country’s political elite in the Grand Kremlin Palace, he said he did not seek to divide Ukraine any further, but he vowed to protect Russia’s interests there from what he described as Western actions that had left Russia feeling cornered

“Crimea has always been an integral part of Russia in the hearts and minds of people,” Mr. Putin declared in his address, delivered in the chandeliered St. George’s Hall before hundreds of members of Parliament, governors and others. His remarks, which lasted 47 minutes, were interrupted repeatedly by thunderous applause, standing ovations and at the end chants of “Russia, Russia.” Some in the audience wiped tears from their eyes.

A theme coursing throughout his remarks was the restoration of Russia after a period of humiliation following the Soviet collapse, which he has famously called “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.

Certainly the sanctions imposed on Russia ahead of Tuesday’s steps did nothing to dissuade Mr. Putin, as he rushed to make a claim to Crimea that he argued conformed to international law and precedent. In his remarks he made clear that Russia was prepared to withstand worse punishment in the name of restoring a lost part of the country’s historic empire, effectively daring world leaders to sever political or economic ties and risk the consequences to their own economies.

Only hours after Mr. Putin declared that “not a single shot” had been fired in the military intervention in Crimea, a group of soldiers opened fire as they stormed a Ukrainian military mapping office near Simferopol, killing a Ukrainian soldier and wounding another, according to a Ukrainian officer inside the base and a statement by Ukraine’s Defense Ministry.

Mr. Putin appeared Tuesday evening at a rally and concert on Red Square to celebrate an event charged with emotional and historical significance for many Russians. Among the music played was a sentimental Soviet song called “Sevastopol Waltz.”

He linked the uprisings in Ukraine and the Arab world and ominously warned that there were efforts to agitate inside Russia. He suggested that dissenters at home would be considered traitors, a theme that has reverberated through society with propagandistic documentaries on state television and moves to mute or close opposition news organizations and websites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/wo...aine.html?_r=2

[Serra]

yo fuck kittens

It's ok, you can be in the 30% without hearts.

[kuronosan]

Yep. He's gone full retard.

[Kohan]

Yep. He's gone full retard.

Andalusian girls for not liking kittens or Putin for grandstanding like a comic book supervillain?

[Andalusian girls]

can't it be both

[Kohan]

I think you're right.

[Viena]

You realize that the vote didn't even have an option to choose "stay with Ukraine" right? It's completely invalid for determining the will of the Crimean people - and even if it was, it is up to all of Ukraine, not just those Ukrainians who live in Crimea, who should be voting.

I don't share the view from your last statement here. Don't Scotland or Quebec get to vote about their sovereignty without a vote of the entirety of the UK or Canadian population? If for historical and cultural reasons the majority within a territory prefer secession of the state that governs them, there should be a diplomatic way to achieve so. Think of the current day's remains of colonization, for instance. I think of it of a divorce, where not both parties need to agree to it.

That being said, everything about how Crimea's referendum was carried out screams foul play by Russia. Although I don't think that its outcome would have been too different under more legitimate conditions considering Crimea's demography.

[Serra]

Hrmmmmm.. So that's an interesting point that I think is going to require more thinking on my part. But, off the top of my head, I'm inclined to say no, you can't just seceed because you're unhappy. It seems like the kinda thing southern states (remember Rick Perry's comments?) were saying when Obama got elected, passed the health care law, etc. But then another part of me thinks, they had a democratically elected leader (who was supported in that region) that was overthrown, so maybe the US case isn't so parallel.. And there's the whole cultural ties side of the debate, but I don't know what to make of the idea that they were part of Ukraine since the 60s and saw themselves as Russians.. I dunno, maybe it's a timing problem for me..

I'll admit, I don't know nearly enough about Yanukowich or his policies, mostly just things that my friend who is anti-Yanukovich has told me, so I'm not sure I can make an assessment..

[Callisto]

Yanukovich's issues weren't about policy so much as corruption. They had a massive scheme going where him and his friends skimmed massive amounts off the top and anyone who was not in the inner circle that wanted to do business had to pay mafia-style tributes to be allowed to do so. Most of their previous EU bailout was just completely squandered going to the corrupt ones, so the fact that there was even a chance at them getting another one was a good sign to the people, and then Yanokovich decided to skip the EU bailout that would require anti-corruption reforms and instead take a loan from Russia, who would allow things to carry on like normal.

When people unsurprisingly got mad about this and started protesting, he passed harsh laws against organized protesting, that's when everything went nuts in Kiev.

[Tarage]

In other news the new chief prosecutor is a cutie. I'd get cross examined by her any day. You know. Before they remembered that they don't do trials and send me to to the gulag...

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people...ia-poklonskaya

[6souls]

In other news the new chief prosecutor is a cutie. I'd get cross examined by her any day. You know. Before they remembered that they don't do trials and send me to to the gulag...

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people...ia-poklonskaya

http://krautchan.net/h/thread-20680.html - NSFW

[Tarage]

Damn the internet is fast... not that I'm complaining.

When are they going to do the head/body swaps?

[Kerberoz]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=240108029

http://www.reddit.com/r/nataliapoklonskaya

[Andalusian girls]

the webs is a dark and terrible place

[thetruepandagod]

the webs be an adorable place

[TummieGaruda]

Yanukovich's issues weren't about policy so much as corruption. They had a massive scheme going where him and his friends skimmed massive amounts off the top and anyone who was not in the inner circle that wanted to do business had to pay mafia-style tributes to be allowed to do so. Most of their previous EU bailout was just completely squandered going to the corrupt ones, so the fact that there was even a chance at them getting another one was a good sign to the people, and then Yanokovich decided to skip the EU bailout that would require anti-corruption reforms and instead take a loan from Russia, who would allow things to carry on like normal.

When people unsurprisingly got mad about this and started protesting, he passed harsh laws against organized protesting, that's when everything went nuts in Kiev.

I remember hearing a story about how when Yanukovych became president, he sold his $100,000 apartment to someone in his political party using state funds for $17 million. That person was connected to Yanukovych's son who owned the bank which that transferred the money to a shell company in Austria.

There are other examples such as paying $10,000 for name plates of the animals for the Zoo at one of his estates. Pretty crazy stuff.

[Mazmaz]

Makes sense to start a revolution instead of just trying him for financial fraud tho obviously