Air Traffic Control (Aviation Disaster thread)

[Kryssan]

Yep, I understand that for instance, Malaysian airspace is not as monitored as say Europe and American airspace and we all have different kinds of regulations for the areas that are not too far out to be monitored. I'm just wondering if they could even see a plane that did not cooperate with the friendly hand shakes going in and out of airspaces and chose to remain totally silent for nefarious reasons. Like if a plane entered your airspace, would it require cooperation or willing communication between both the pilot of the plane and the air traffic controllers in order for that plane to even be seen by them?

Edit, nevermind..I see that Kryssan answered my question. Thank you Your post was very informative!

Here's some more information from another CNN update ( which they have a huge text note of "NEW CLUES"... not really CNN, not really ) today explaining the US reasoning behind the flight changes:

Because the northern parts of the traffic corridor include some tightly guarded airspace over India, Pakistan, and even some U.S. installations in Afghanistan, U.S. authorities believe it more likely the aircraft crashed into waters outside of the reach of radar south of India, one U.S. official told CNN. If it had flown farther north, it's likely it would have been detected by radar.

Edit: So back on the oxygen thing. I just read another theorycrafting news article which threw back to a small-plane crash in 1999. A Learjet 35 charter craft carrying golfer Payne Stewart suffered a failure of cabin oxygen / pressure and allowed the plane to fly out the duration of it's fuel and when it crashed into the ground at supersonic and high angle it obliterated itself. For a memory refresher, here's the wiki page. The premise I read in this article specifically for the Malaysian flight was basically fishing for ways this still might have been the result of an accident and not human error, but such an event wouldn't explain the forced d/c of communications and tracking nor the course changes the aircraft apparently exhibited.

[TummieGaruda]

Here's some more information from another CNN update ( which they have a huge text note of "NEW CLUES"... not really CNN, not really ) today explaining the US reasoning behind the flight changes:





Edit: So back on the oxygen thing. I just read another theorycrafting news article which threw back to a small-plane crash in 1999. A Learjet 35 charter craft carrying golfer Payne Stewart suffered a failure of cabin oxygen / pressure and allowed the plane to fly out the duration of it's fuel and when it crashed into the ground at supersonic and high angle it obliterated itself. For a memory refresher, here's the wiki page. The premise I read in this article specifically for the Malaysian flight was basically fishing for ways this still might have been the result of an accident and not human error, but such an event wouldn't explain the forced d/c of communications and tracking nor the course changes the aircraft apparently exhibited.

Interestingly enough the FAA was looking into certain Boeing 777's that had corrosion and cracking on the airplane skin near a communications device that could potentially cause rapid decompression. This came after they received a report of a 16 inch crack under the fuselage skin on one aircraft.

The Malaysian 777 didn't have this specific antenna tied to the incidents but it is still something to note.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A2B1YN20140312

[Moss]

KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA—Following a host of conflicting reports in the wake of the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 last Saturday, representatives from the Kuala Lumpur–based carrier acknowledged they had widened their investigation into the vanished Boeing 777 aircraft today to encompass not only the possibilities of mechanical failure, pilot error, terrorist activity, or a botched hijacking, but also the overarching scope of space, time, and humankind’s place in the universe.

Interesting.

[Silenka]

Ha. Nice try. The truth is out there. weeooo weeeooo weeeooooo

[Charismatic]

Interesting.

lol WAT

[Niiro]

(it's a link)

[Tarage]

The people I feel the worst about right now are the friends and family of the people who were on that plane. They keep seeing conflicting information and can't even know if they should be worried or grieving.

[Meresgi]

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03...ectrical-fire/

There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it’s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.

We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.

[Xajii]

Yeah except that the flight path has been confirmed to have been reprogrammed via info from ACARS.

Also, the "good night" message came a full 7-10 minutes after the last ACARS report. That wouldn't happen if there was a fire.

Also no account for the reports of "evasive" turns made by the plane as per the Malaysian radars.

Also doesn't match up with satellite ping data at all.

Wired literally copy & pasted this from someone's Facebook.

[Meresgi]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...0-9198965.html

Apparently Courtney Love found it!

All over, go home folks.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I guess she needed the publicity.

[Olo401]

So umm..

Whilst the disappearance of the Boeing 777 jet, carrying 239 passengers has left the whole world in bewilderment, several residents of Kuda Huvadhoo told Haveeru on Tuesday that they saw a "low flying jumbo jet" at around 6:15am on March 8.

They said that it was a white aircraft, with red stripes across it – which is what the Malaysia Airlines flights typically look like.

Eyewitnesses from the Kuda Huvadhoo concurred that the aeroplane was travelling North to South-East, towards the Southern tip of the Maldives – Addu.

Just to give you an idea where our journey has taken us.. (spoilered for big pic)

Spoiler: show

The red line is from the last radar-spot location to the reported location, the thin teal line is the direction the plane was said to be flying.

[Salodin]

So it could have landed in that small chain of islands to the west?

[kuronosan]

Very possible. But then that would require it to not have been picked up by Indian or Sri Lankan radar. There is a small airport south of the Maldives on a remote island but the question is whether a 777 could land there or not.

edit:

Here:

[Olo401]

So it could have landed in that small chain of islands to the west?

There's not much island to work with in that area - Maldives is a chain of atolls. From that spot the two closest airstrips are at Male (just north) and Diego Garcia US Naval Station (almost due south of Addu Atoll Edit: pic of Diego Garcia in above post).

If this is the same plane, it had already flown well over 1500 miles. Even if they had flown so low that ground effect kicked in and extended the fuel range, the plane couldn't have had enough fuel left to make it much further (Seychelles is ~1000 miles, coast of Somalia is ~2000).

[kuronosan]

There's also this, Olo:

"The last ‘ping’ signal from the aircraft was detected by a satellite in an area near a US naval base on Diego Garcia and Maldives."

[Roranora]

Just wondering what these peeps plan is.. are they gonna roll a fat man little boy out of this thing?

Or sell on vietnam craigslist

[BaneTheBrawler]

ground effect is cool as shit, just so you're all aware. you guys should look up ekranoplans.

anyway this is nuts. so many conflicting reports.

[Tajin]

We have the plane in Acapulco and the passengers are sipping margaritas in Puerto Vallarta.

[Acevalefor]

ground effect is cool as shit, just so you're all aware. you guys should look up ekranoplans.

anyway this is nuts. so many conflicting reports.

Ground effect lift is a factor in small aircraft botched take-offs in many cases. If the pilot does not trim for takeoff and leaves the trim where it was when they landed, on take-off, the reduced stall speed from ground effect, acceleration and incorrect trim makes the airplane "porpoise" when the trim causes the nose to rise. Then it slam back into the runway when it stalls 20 feet off the ground. This is one of the first cautionary lessons when learning to fly. It is more focused on being a dumbass and not going through your shutdown or pre-flight checklists, but they definitely talked about ground effect and rotating too soon. $10,000 later (and probably some severe injuries), you learn how important it is not to slam into the runway.

Anyways, back to the airplane in question. That runway is way too short to land a 777 on. My boss thinks this was a political stunt and the pilot(s) are aligned with a faction that wants to overthrow the malaysian government. They stole the plane, landed somewhere in China, and are going to use the passengers as hostages as well as weaponize the airplane. There are too many holes in his theory to even consider the possibility. I think the most likely scenario is electrical failure due to fire...but what stopped them from landing at the nearest airport if there was a fire...I am so lost in "what if" and "maybe so" that I can't make sense of how a 777 could just disappear.