Air Traffic Control (Aviation Disaster thread)

**Roranora** · 2014-03-24 14:38

I conclude wormhole.

**Twilight Sky** · 2014-03-24 16:58

Originally Posted by Serra

Malaysia's PM is saying it went down over the Indian Ocean. Families informed that no one survived, but it sounds like they don't have concrete evidence yet. There have been two objects found in the ocean (which the Australian Navy is on the way to investigate) that they think are part of the wreckage -- but at this point, who knows.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1
http://gawker.com/at-a-press-confere...min-1550273593

And the fleet will say they found nothing/it's not a plane.

SOMEBODY knows something. But I've given up hope.

**kuronosan** · 2014-03-24 21:20

Fuck Malaysia. They're not telling the whole story, and China knows it.

**quannum** · 2014-03-24 21:23

Someone tried to move the island without authorization

**Coren** · 2014-03-24 22:12

Originally Posted by Silenka

Why would they tell the families no one survived if they're not even sure what they found was the plane. ._. The pings stopped there but were they unable to turn that off?

My understanding is that they have a "ping" that puts it in one of 2 locations. Since one of them is over land and they have no other proof that it was there (like ground-based radars), they're left with the one that's like 1500 miles SW of australia. When you figure it used 80% of it's fuel to get there, and the lack of landing strips for thousands of miles, there's only one conclusion left.

The theory that seems the most credible to me is that a catastrophic failure that cut communications. The pilot immediately attempted to divert to the nearest landing strip large enough for his plane. Conveniently enough there's a 13k ft runway that the new flight path went over.... but they succumbed to smoke/fire first. The plane then continued on with everybody dead until it ran out of fuel somewhere in the south indian ocean.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2014-03-25 01:52

I have been helping with the crowd-sourced, satellite photo search on Tomnod and I went to the coverage page that shows what areas were pulled for sorting, with the count of people's agreement with samples of the objects they have found.

I might be wrong but it looks like they have not pulled any images in the area where the main search is right now, outside of Perth. I wonder if it is because they do not have access to that coverage. Just kinda seems strange that they would leave that out so I am wondering if I have it wrong and they are indeed in the correct area. The map outside of Perth seems totally blank.

Also, Malaysia Air needs to let Australia handle public relations or something. I don't think the families can take anymore. At least the Australians offered to cover their transport free to Australia.

**Kryssan** · 2014-03-25 12:03

Originally Posted by Silenka

Why would they tell the families no one survived if they're not even sure what they found was the plane. ._. The pings stopped there but were they unable to turn that off?

It's not necessarily about the pings. Right now AFAIK they're using the mathematical calculations derived from the pings, not the pings themselves. They had two directions the plane could have gone in following the last ping based on the idea that they were shooting for some target airfield and they were using the airplane's fuel load / range to figure out what that target might have been. Immarsat (link) ( verified by AAIB, Boeing, and a few others ) however were analysing the signal of the pings, comparing how long it took for it to bounce between the satellite and the plane and coming up with direction. That data is what they're currently saying is pointing to the south and that the statistical probability says the plane was lost there.

It's another item in a long list of things they've tried to find something of the plane. It isn't confirmed but everyone's grasping at straws, and without any further data and with no debris yet collected / verified to be of the plane, it is what it is. However, insurance wise, things have already started rolling for claims on the passengers. By declaring everyone lost at this moment this is more probable what they're shooting for.

**Salodin** · 2014-03-25 12:43

I don't get why people are giving flak for the announcement. Its been 2 weeks with not a single tangible piece of plane found. At some point we just have to accept the fact that the plane went down, and not in a calm controlled manner in a remote air strip like family members were hoping for.

Your family members are missing, now presumed dead. My condolences.

**zoobernut** · 2014-03-25 12:53

Originally Posted by Coren

My understanding is that they have a "ping" that puts it in one of 2 locations. Since one of them is over land and they have no other proof that it was there (like ground-based radars), they're left with the one that's like 1500 miles SW of australia. When you figure it used 80% of it's fuel to get there, and the lack of landing strips for thousands of miles, there's only one conclusion left.

The theory that seems the most credible to me is that a catastrophic failure that cut communications. The pilot immediately attempted to divert to the nearest landing strip large enough for his plane. Conveniently enough there's a 13k ft runway that the new flight path went over.... but they succumbed to smoke/fire first. The plane then continued on with everybody dead until it ran out of fuel somewhere in the south indian ocean.

If I recall there was a flight a long time ago over Greece I think that had a similar issue. They had a minor fire or malfunction that knocked out communications then slowly the oxygen bled out of the cabin in such a way that no one noticed, everyone passed out and the plane circled over the airport on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Edit: Found it. Helios flight 522 was the deadliest airplane crash in Greece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

An engineer on the ground was checking the pressurization system and forgot to switch it from Manual to Auto before take off. The plane slowly bled air as it took off and everyone was suffering hypoxia then passed out. The plane continued to fly until it ran out of fuel.

**octopus** · 2014-03-25 13:09

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/6l...-of-flight-370

**kuronosan** · 2014-03-25 13:14

Originally Posted by Salodin

I don't get why people are giving flak for the announcement. Its been 2 weeks with not a single tangible piece of plane found. At some point we just have to accept the fact that the plane went down, and not in a calm controlled manner in a remote air strip like family members were hoping for.

Your family members are missing, now presumed dead. My condolences.

But sending the message via text? Come on.

**Aksannyi** · 2014-03-25 13:20

Originally Posted by zoobernut

If I recall there was a flight a long time ago over Greece I think that had a similar issue. They had a minor fire or malfunction that knocked out communications then slowly the oxygen bled out of the cabin in such a way that no one noticed, everyone passed out and the plane circled over the airport on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Edit: Found it. Helios flight 522 was the deadliest airplane crash in Greece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

An engineer on the ground was checking the pressurization system and forgot to switch it from Manual to Auto before take off. The plane slowly bled air as it took off and everyone was suffering hypoxia then passed out. The plane continued to fly until it ran out of fuel.

It's terrifying to think that this sort of thing could happen and there's essentially nothing that anyone could do about it.

Okay now that I read that wiki article there was plenty that could have been done and plenty that should have been done. But still, everyone passes out from lack of oxygen and eventually they crashed into a mountain, that's kind of horrifying.

**Azull** · 2014-03-25 13:27

I vaguely recall talk of the military having to shoot down Payne Stewarts (Golfer) plane if it got to near populated areas when it depressurized. Luckily (???) it crashed before then and the only people lost were on board.

**Silenka** · 2014-03-25 13:29

Oh , I see about the pings now, thanks. As others conjectured, it seems to me also that someone knows more than they're letting on. I wonder if it really was some kind of fuckup on Malaysia's part, and they just don't want to admit it because of potential repercussions. Most of the passengers were Chinese, and pissing off China isn't a good idea considering how large and powerful it is right now, especially when you're right near it. Although if it was an accident and it's found out that Malaysia was covering it up then that would probably end up even worse for them.

**Xajii** · 2014-03-25 13:33

Originally Posted by kuronosan

But sending the message via text? Come on.

it's like you guys don't read. even the daily show / colbert didn't read. the vast majority of families were told in person, the ones who received texts were because they couldnt get in touch otherwise

**ronin sparthos** · 2014-03-25 15:07

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

It's terrifying to think that this sort of thing could happen and there's essentially nothing that anyone could do about it.

Okay now that I read that wiki article there was plenty that could have been done and plenty that should have been done. But still, everyone passes out from lack of oxygen and eventually they crashed into a mouontain, that's kind of horrifying.

Don't forget the worst part: That a flight attendant with flight training tried to gain control of the aircraft but didn't have the experience on a 737 so basically he wrestled controls to no avail (engines flamed out) and was probably awake when the plane crashed into the mountain. After seeing pics of the aftermath of that crash, you'll have nightmares for weeks.

And since I'm going on about nightmares, here are cockpit voice recordings of some crashes (both fatal/non-fatal): http://www.planecrashinfo.com/lastwords.htm

Spoiler: show

^ Probably the one that stuck with me most.

**Kryssan** · 2014-03-25 16:23

Originally Posted by ronin sparthos

After seeing pics of the aftermath of that crash, you'll have nightmares for weeks.

And since I'm going on about nightmares, here are cockpit voice recordings of some crashes (both fatal/non-fatal): http://www.planecrashinfo.com/lastwords.htm

The one that has stuck with me since I learned of it would be Columbia. No, they did not die from burn up. Life could only have been so kind to them.

Spoiler: show

I realise the shuttle isn't a comparison point for a civilian airliner ( yet, civvy space flights ( esp. mainstream ) are still far and away ), but it's all sorts of the wrong food for thought.

Not a plane, but the one that stuck with me as much as Columbia would be the USS Thresher. All sorts of horrible. The gertrude phone has never been so hated.

**Xno Kappa** · 2014-03-25 16:44

Wasn't there also evidence from the Columbia incident to suggest one of them actually survived the ship disentigrating, and tried to deploy either a parachute or an air tank?

**Kryssan** · 2014-03-25 17:57

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

Wasn't there also evidence from the Columbia incident to suggest one of them actually survived the ship disentigrating, and tried to deploy either a parachute or an air tank?

Not to my knowledge. They did however point out that not all of the crew were wearing their proper safety equipment, acknowledging that even had they been wearing it they wouldn't have been helped.

Spoiler: show

**Osede** · 2014-03-26 01:45

Originally Posted by Silenka

Oh , I see about the pings now, thanks. As others conjectured, it seems to me also that someone knows more than they're letting on. I wonder if it really was some kind of fuckup on Malaysia's part, and they just don't want to admit it because of potential repercussions. Most of the passengers were Chinese, and pissing off China isn't a good idea considering how large and powerful it is right now, especially when you're right near it. Although if it was an accident and it's found out that Malaysia was covering it up then that would probably end up even worse for them.

Although most malaysian may be will tell you that the government tries to hide something. But in my opinion, it is because we, malaysia are lack of all these kind of technologies. All those satellite imaging and stuff, unless the company willing to release for free, else you gotta buy from them. The most concern still be they release the military radar info late. Although I would suspect that, the south east asia air space has been always peace (which is good), that results the ground operator does not pay much attention. The other reason is where the aircraft cross, above northern malaysia? or above thailand?

The Inmarsat thing, I would say it was lucky that the aircraft sent the signal when it was under two Inmarsat Field of View, else, it would make the location identification even worse. It just sad that our technologies nowaday is very great, but only if it works as intend and malfunction within our expectation.

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